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re: Infinity War is the empire of my generation.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 1:51 pm to Hester Carries
Posted on 4/17/20 at 1:51 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
My issue with superhero movies is best highlighted by Superman. They just are shitty vehicles for a story. The only way to create real conflict with godlike beings is to just willy nilly forget things you've established or just lazily establish new things. As someone who has seen every Star Wars and every Marvel movie....they are just dumb. They're fun and dumb.
But that doesn't make them bad, at all, as what you are specifically looking for - seemingly a story with "real conflict, an unknown or unpredictable ending, etc. - aren't what the medium - or superhoes - are built to do. And that's ok. So rather than saying "these things are bad," it's basically saying - I don't prefer those things.
It's like going into a Lynch movie looking for a Billy Wilder film. Yeah, that's the wrong expectations.
No one opens a comic book and doesn't think the hero is going to lose, forever, and that the stakes are super high. Everyone reading comics, and therefore the by-product in comic book films, is looking for - the next adventure that will slightly change the hero, maybe only for now, and maybe only a little, against their nemesis who they will eventually overcome. There's never much mystery there. There isn't supposed to be. Superhoes are a lot about wish fulfillment - that's why heroes always win and they don't change all that much. Because they are supposed to be a vehicle for identity and ideals. You're supposed to WANT to be Spider-Man.
Do you WANT to be Merrick in Elephant Man or Beaumont in Blue Velvet? Probably not.
1
Posted on 4/17/20 at 1:59 pm to kingbob
quote:
Where's the other blockbusters like we had in the 80's and 90's?
Like John Wick, Mission Impossible, F&F, every Nolan film, family movies like Jumanji, Avatar (Ewww, but still it was a legit blockbuster), the new Star Treks, Valerian (should have been a block buster), John Carter (also should have been a blockbuster), etc.?
quote:
Where's the comedy movies after 2015 or so?
Game Night, Tag, Jojo Rabbit? Also, if anything killed Comedies it wasn't superhero films, it was political correctness.
quote:
Where's the other blockbusters like we had in the 80's and 90's? Where's the comedy movies after 2015 or so? Where's the teen movies, the suspense movies, the spy movies, the heist films, the mafia movies, the detective dramas, the buddy cop action-comedies, the romance films, the period pieces, etc.
It's just harded for films to stand out now, that's what you are seeing. We've had a great run of sci-fi, horror, suspense films, but they are usually released under the radar. Nothing wrong with that. There are just more films released every year.
quote:
It feels like Hollywood has become extremely shallow in their releases and pretty much focuses 90% of their resources on superhero films to the exclusion of everything else.
They just focus big releases on big, broad general public films.
Ex Machina, Autopsy of Jane Doe, John Wick, those are still getting made.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:04 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I don’t know about that, but Thor: Ragnarok is this generation’s Raiders of the Lost Arc
Are you serious? Ragnarok was one of the weaker Marvel movies. Enjoyable, but a terrible Thor movie. The CGI looked like a Hanna-Barbera production. And they turned turned Thor into alternatively a whimpering 12-year old girl and a wise-cracking character from a Hope/Crosby road picture.
Raiders is a timeless classic.
I agree. Ragnorok, Marvel ripped off its own self ..tried to make it Guardians clone. They really made Surtur a joke..Hemsworth didnt really become a well rounded Thor til Infinity War and Endgame...took the best of Ragnorok with best of the previous more Serious Thor films.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:10 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Where's the other blockbusters like we had in the 80's and 90's? Where's the comedy movies after 2015 or so? Where's the teen movies, the suspense movies, the spy movies, the heist films, the mafia movies, the detective dramas, the buddy cop action-comedies, the romance films, the period pieces, etc.
It's just harded for films to stand out now, that's what you are seeing. We've had a great run of sci-fi, horror, suspense films, but they are usually released under the radar. Nothing wrong with that. There are just more films released every year.
Also, people always complain that they want more originality, but they don't show up to theaters to support those films.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:17 pm to kingbob
quote:
Because Ragnorok is one of the best marvel movies and no where near the weakest
I don't think it was a bad movie at all, but I didn't like it as much as most people on this board did. It turned the character of Thor into a self-aware buffoon. The original Thor movie remains my favorite of the three because it had stakes that weren't made lighter by humor and it really did justice to the character.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:24 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:no
And just like the rest of your generation....it is falling short of the mark hit by those before it.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:46 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
don't think it was a bad movie at all, but I didn't like it as much as most people on this board did. It turned the character of Thor into a self-aware buffoon.
I like Ragnarok, and in my experience, it is favored by people who watch Marvel films without actually loving those films. I'm one of those.
The first 2 Thors are generally considered among the weakest of the whole universe, and they are definitely 2 of the lowest grossing. I think the decision to lighten Thor's character along with his immediate surroundings was very intentional. In every other MCU movie, characters who take themselves too seriously are made fun of. Thor took himself very seriously. I understand why many might not like it, but I think he fits into the character group of the MCU just fine with and post-Ragnarok
Posted on 4/17/20 at 2:57 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
For Zoomers, maybe. I would tend to agree just because what else is there from 2010 to now that is fantasy/scifi for kids to young adults that has had a bigger impact?
Lord of the Rings is the "Millennial" pillar for a fantasy/scifi movies that had a huge impact for kids to young adults when it came out. It will be watched and enjoyed 40+ years from now. I would also argue LOTR is the better trilogy than the original Star Wars.
Lord of the Rings is the "Millennial" pillar for a fantasy/scifi movies that had a huge impact for kids to young adults when it came out. It will be watched and enjoyed 40+ years from now. I would also argue LOTR is the better trilogy than the original Star Wars.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 3:06 pm to LB84
LOTR is so different in tone. LOTR has more in common with historical epics like Braveheart and The Patriot than it does with Star Wars. Star Wars is more action-packed and fast-paced. LOTR is darker, more dramatic, slower burn with bigger set pieces.
Star Wars is more like a series of car chases.
Star Wars is more like a series of car chases.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 3:58 pm to LB84
quote:That's not a hard argument to make.
I would also argue LOTR is the better trilogy than the original Star Wars.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 4:18 pm to LB84
quote:
For Zoomers, maybe.
I'd say it's for late millennials and early zoomers. And yes it is definitely the Empire of the generation
Posted on 4/17/20 at 4:21 pm to Freauxzen
You've referenced the Jack Kirby years in arguing with me about Ragnarok before but a don't think you realize you are making my argument for me. Look at the dialogue in those panels. Thor's manner of speaking is overly stilted and formal - THAT'S the humor. Nowhere in that period was he riffing like he was Axel Foley in Beverly Hills Cop. It's like Marvel's thought process was "One Robert Downey, Jr Iron Man is great. Two wisecracking Robert Downey, Jrs will be greater."
Nevermind the OdinSon crying and whimpering meeting the GoldBlum Master. Hanging upside down in flames in the presence of a talking Balrog? It's Thin Man witty banter time. Meeting the GoldBlum Master? Cry like an LSU fan at a bad call. It was a cheap stunt to elicit humor that completely goes against the ethos of the character.
Marvel movies were good to great. Not every one of them was a home run. Ragnarok was a Baltimore Chop single.
Nevermind the OdinSon crying and whimpering meeting the GoldBlum Master. Hanging upside down in flames in the presence of a talking Balrog? It's Thin Man witty banter time. Meeting the GoldBlum Master? Cry like an LSU fan at a bad call. It was a cheap stunt to elicit humor that completely goes against the ethos of the character.
Marvel movies were good to great. Not every one of them was a home run. Ragnarok was a Baltimore Chop single.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 5:38 pm to SoFla Tideroller
If you watch the thor movies, he gets increasingly less formal during the course of each film. His overly dramatic, self-seriousness is the humor in the comics, but on the big screen, it mostly fell flat. It makes sense that as he grew as a character surrounded by a bunch of wisecracking a-holes that he would become one himself. Plus, the movie is just way more entertaining that way. When Hulk comes out and he starts cheering, cracks me up every time.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 5:51 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Also, people always complain that they want more originality, but they don't show up to theaters to support those films.
2019 was an excellent illustration of this point.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 6:09 pm to southdowns84
Is that purely due to audiences rejecting these more original premises or film companies putting zero effort into promoting them in favor of investing ever more into their superhero tent poles?
This post was edited on 4/17/20 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 4/17/20 at 6:26 pm to geauxnavybeatbama
I actually don’t think it is. It’s kind of it’s own separate thing.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 7:33 pm to UsingUpAllTheLetters
quote:
I dunno. Everyone knew the snap wasn’t permanent.
And it was fairly obvious Han wasn’t dead. I mean, they make a point to say he’s fine after he gets frozen. It’s ok that someone compared a modern movie to your precious Empire, Gen X scum.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 7:50 pm to kingbob
quote:
Is that purely due to audiences rejecting these more original premises or film companies putting zero effort into promoting them in favor of investing ever more into their superhero tent poles?
Nice false dilemma.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:02 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
You've referenced the Jack Kirby years in arguing with me about Ragnarok before but a don't think you realize you are making my argument for me. Look at the dialogue in those panels. Thor's manner of speaking is overly stilted and formal - THAT'S the humor.
You mean like this:
quote:
Dr. Stephen Strange: Thor, I sense a great change in your future. Destiny has dire plans for you, my friend.
Thor: I have dire plans for destiny.
Or this:
quote:
Barber: Now, don’t you move. My hands ain’t as steady as they used to be.
Thor: By Odin’s beard, you shall not cut my hair, lest you feel the wrath of the mighty Thor.
[starting to feel nervous]
Thor: Please. Please, kind sir, do not cut my hair. Please! No! No!
Or this line where it feels like he IS trying to sound normal:
quote:
Thor: [to Hulk] Where have you been? Everybody thought you were dead. So much has happened since I last saw you. I lost my hammer, like yesterday, so that’s still pretty fresh. Loki, Loki’s alive. Can you believe it? He’s up there.
Again, the point is that it's a great COMBO of classic Kirby Thor and a Thor trying to be modern. Of course it isn't going to be a panel for panel match. It very much still plays like a fish out of water. He still isn't too far out of water anymore, but Hemsworth actually does a great job of making it seem natural. A god king mixing with mere mortals, it works.
quote:
Hanging upside down in flames in the presence of a talking Balrog?
Being arrogant enough to get captured and start witty banter with a big villain because he is the Odinson...yeah that's like exactly Thor.
quote:
Meeting the GoldBlum Master? Cry like an LSU fan at a bad call. It was a cheap stunt to elicit humor that completely goes against the ethos of the character.
Crying because he thought Loki was dead? He does that in the comics every time Loki "dies."
Did he ham it up Sure. Was that a misstep? Maybe, but that doesn't invalidate the entire film.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:37 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
But that doesn't make them bad, at all, as what you are specifically looking for - seemingly a story with "real conflict, an unknown or unpredictable ending, etc. - aren't what the medium - or superhoes - are built to do. And that's ok. So rather than saying "these things are bad," it's basically saying - I don't prefer those things.
You are agreeing with me on accident, mate.
I didnt say they were "bad".
I said they were fun, hokey, and dumb (meaning not smart). Thats what they are "aiming" to do. They are successful movies. Obviously. Im not sure how youve twisted my argument all the way back to arguing for my original premise lol.
My issue is that people lift the movies up into arenas they cant possibly compete in and expect me not to laugh at them IN THAT CONTEXT. People love to spout shite like "I'd put Captain America: Winter Soldier up against any spy-movie, because you know, thats what it really is". COME THE frick ON. Just say "that movie was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it." Dont talk all that nonsense.
I think "Gimme a break" is a great fricking jingle. Sold a bunch of kit kats. Everyone knows it. As successful a jingle that ever existed. But do not tell me its a good song lol.
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