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re: GoT S7 E5 "Eastwatch" MAESTERS THREAD
Posted on 8/15/17 at 12:58 pm to DelU249
Posted on 8/15/17 at 12:58 pm to DelU249
It's an open question since in the books there are other Martells who have never shown up in the show. The question is whether they exist in the show-verse and may still be alive, or if they get specifically nixed like Garlan Tyrell.
Olenna basically says Garlan doesn't exist in this universe. No one has really made a statement on whether Quentin and Arianne exist
Olenna basically says Garlan doesn't exist in this universe. No one has really made a statement on whether Quentin and Arianne exist
2
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:04 pm to Sneaky__Sally
He actually had a good battle plan against Ramsay until he charged. His pride got the better of him but he did in fact have a decent plan. So don't act like he's incompetent
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:08 pm to CorporateTiger
Well, in the real world, there would be many more levels of family to draw a ruler from - decendants, ascendants, cousins, etc. till they found one or one imposed their claim.
I think that may have been what Robert based his "legal" claim on. (though in reality it was through conquest and through acceptance by the other houses). He was some relationship of the Targs in some way.
In the real world, they could find SOMEONE in the line if they really needed to - go up to a grandfather or great grandfather who was leader and back down until you find someone. The same may well end up being true in the books, I'm not sure.
But in the show world, we just have to accept that there are NO relations in any degree for these houses.
I think that may have been what Robert based his "legal" claim on. (though in reality it was through conquest and through acceptance by the other houses). He was some relationship of the Targs in some way.
In the real world, they could find SOMEONE in the line if they really needed to - go up to a grandfather or great grandfather who was leader and back down until you find someone. The same may well end up being true in the books, I'm not sure.
But in the show world, we just have to accept that there are NO relations in any degree for these houses.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:13 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
No one has really made a statement on whether Quentin and Arianne exist
Implicitly, they don't exist. Arianne's entire storyline was condensed into the Ellaria Sand/Sandsnakes storyline of the show. Instead of merely maiming Myrcella, the show killed her, Trystane and Doran - thus putting Sand in charge of Dorne. Ergo, no legitimate Martells exist after Doran and Trystane are killed.
They gave Quentin's big scene in the books to Tyrion in the show (albeit with a twist).
So, my only conclusion is that the Martell storyline is a dead end or cul-de-sac. (Same analysis with Young Griff/Aegon).
Part of this is the limitations of the media. Part of it is limitations of the budget (just can't cast all these mid-major characters). Part of it is Martin didn't tell a particularly efficient story, especially clear after the first novel and a half/two novels.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:15 pm to Methuselah
quote:The overthinkers are wearing me down. It's making the show less fun to follow. Theorizing about future events is one thing, but obsessing over the military command abilities of a fictional character is, as I said, masturbation.
To paraphrase Cersei: Why do you do that?
He won. They won. That's really all we need to know. I'm not sure what great commander would have won at the Wall and BotB without more help, but I'm not obsessing over that either.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:25 pm to blueboy
I find discussing those aspects of these series much more interesting than theorizing about future events - different strokes.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:25 pm to Ace Midnight
I'm sure this has been brought up, but I'm just curious what people think about there being only two kingsguard for Cersei and none for Dany or Jon. It's one of those "let's ignore this because it's not crucial to the story" things, right?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:26 pm to ell_13
The North doesn't have a Kingsgaurd and Dany has Dorthraki follow her around.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:28 pm to ell_13
quote:
none for Dany or Jon.
You could argue that Dany has at least 3 and they are fricking huge.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:28 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:Great, but I doubt that you know much of anything (that you can't google) about military command tactics, so it's not like you're really qualified to make any of those statements.
I find discussing those aspects of these series much more interesting than theorizing about future events - different strokes.
At this point, you're just a really long winded troll.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:28 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:True. Rob never had any that I recall either.
The North doesn't have a Kingsgaurd
quote:Eh. Her bloodriders can't/don't follow her everywhere for obvious reasons. Obviously, a kingsguard can't hop on her dragon with her. That being said, I think the bloodriders still go into battle with the dothraki instead of staying back to protect her.
Dany has Dorthraki follow her around.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:29 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
You could argue that Dany has at least 3 and they are fricking huge.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:30 pm to blueboy
It was actually pretty solid discussion this morning. I made my case, changed my outlook on a couple things with information some people presented and nobody, outside of you I suppose, got their feelings hurt.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:33 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Nobody's feelings are hurt.
But Jon won again and again and he's king in the north. How'd that happen?
But Jon won again and again and he's king in the north. How'd that happen?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:37 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
You could argue that Dany has at least 3 and they are fricking huge.
And breathe fire. And their legs are bigger than Gregor Clegane.
:dracarys:
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:39 pm to ell_13
Doesn't fit. We knew about the eventualities that happened in the battles, well beforehand. They didn't just pop up out of nowhere.
So Jon inspires people to join him. That's pretty good leadership. Thanks for agreeing with me.
So Jon inspires people to join him. That's pretty good leadership. Thanks for agreeing with me.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:40 pm to blueboy
quote:
he's king in the north. How'd that happen?
Because the northerners that are left are afraid of a 10 year old girl.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:40 pm to Methuselah
IIRC the Baratheons were born from a bastard offshoot of the Targs around the Conquest.
Yeah it is incredibly unrealistic that these houses are just totally gone. There would alway be a fourth or fifth degree cousin or whatever.
Yeah it is incredibly unrealistic that these houses are just totally gone. There would alway be a fourth or fifth degree cousin or whatever.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:40 pm to blueboy
I mean we've been over that and I don't think you actually want to discuss it so no need to go into it again.
Its not like i'm coming out of left field with this, if you google the premise regarding Jon's battlefield command abilities, there were a number of other articles which reached the same conclusion i did after the BotB episode.
In the end its a typical fantasy storyline, humanity against the evil horde with a number of secondary story arcs - organizing your forces, gaining followers, betrayal and getting everyone in place are all common themes. So the characters, their motivations, abilities and flaws are what interests me in these stories. Just gloss over my comments if you don't like that aspect of the story because that is what i will be discussing for the most part.
Its not like i'm coming out of left field with this, if you google the premise regarding Jon's battlefield command abilities, there were a number of other articles which reached the same conclusion i did after the BotB episode.
In the end its a typical fantasy storyline, humanity against the evil horde with a number of secondary story arcs - organizing your forces, gaining followers, betrayal and getting everyone in place are all common themes. So the characters, their motivations, abilities and flaws are what interests me in these stories. Just gloss over my comments if you don't like that aspect of the story because that is what i will be discussing for the most part.
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