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re: GoT S7 E5 "Eastwatch" MAESTERS THREAD
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:41 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:41 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
And breathe fire. And their legs are bigger than Gregor Clegane.
Drogon was doing Queensguard work when he ran off that crazy blond guy that rushed the stage with a stick.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 1:54 pm
0
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:41 pm to blueboy
quote:The Vale? Jon Coming back to life? Stanis? All of those are literally DEM.
Doesn't fit
Hardhome was a loss. Period. The only win I give him is the battle at castle black. quote:Uh... neither Stanis or LF were "joining" Jon. You do know that right?
So Jon inspires people to join him. That's pretty good leadership. Thanks for agreeing with me.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:44 pm to ell_13
Putting Hardhome on Jon (on any way) is retarded. He wasn't in command of anyone except I tiny group of troops there.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:45 pm to Sneaky__Sally
I think we can all agree that Jon Snow is probably the best leader on the show. He gets people to willingly follow him into the worst possible fights. His problem is he is the only person that sees the immediacy of the threat the WWs pose so he's trying to do everything before he has the resources he needs because he doesn't feel he has time to do it the "right" way.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:45 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
IIRC the Baratheons were born from a bastard offshoot of the Targs around the Conquest.
I don't think they were bastards from the Conquest times. Pretty sure a Targaryen married a Baratheon at some point, which is what the claim was based on.
Edit:
Looked it up, Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen princess. That's what his claim was based upon.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:46 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:It was a battle he lost, not won. I'm not saying that had anything to do with his leadership just that no one should be counting it as a win.
Putting Hardhome on Jon (on any way) is retarded. He wasn't in command of anyone except I tiny group of troops there.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:47 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
House Baratheon was founded by Orys Baratheon, a general in the army of King Aegon I Targaryen, the Conqueror. Orys Baratheon was also rumored to be Aegon's bastard half-brother.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:47 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I think we can all agree that Jon Snow is probably the best leader on the show. He gets people to willingly follow him into the worst possible fights. His problem is he is the only person that sees the immediacy of the threat the WWs pose so he's trying to do everything before he has the resources he needs because he doesn't feel he has time to do it the "right" way.
I admit leader was the completely wrong word to use and he is a very good leader of people in terms of inspiration, leading by example, etc. - i was trying to comment on his battlefield command abilities.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:47 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
I don't think they were bastards from the Conquest times. Pretty sure a Targaryen married a Baratheon at some point, which is what the claim was based on.
It's both but I think Robert used the claim that of his grandmother being a Targaryen. Aegon's half brother (bastard Targaryen) founded House Baratheon.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:48 pm to ell_13
quote:Read your own link again. No they aren't.
The Vale? Jon Coming back to life? Stanis? All of those are literally DEM
quote:No it wasn't. They weren't there to win a battle. They were there to evacuate people. They lost a lot, but many more escaped.
Hardhome was a loss.
quote:Sure they were. LF through Sansa. Jon inspires people to follow him.
Uh... neither Stanis or LF were "joining" Jon. You do know that right?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:48 pm to TigerinATL
quote:He knows what needs to be done but he's not always the best at carrying it out. He couldn't get everyone to follow him, hence his lack of man power for the BotB. I think what people are drawn to with him is that he doesn't seem to be in it for personal gain like everyone else.
I think we can all agree that Jon Snow is probably the best leader on the show. He gets people to willingly follow him into the worst possible fights.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:49 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
House Baratheon was founded by Orys Baratheon, a general in the army of King Aegon I Targaryen, the Conqueror. Orys Baratheon was also rumored to be Aegon's bastard half-brother.
Ah...didn't recall this part at all. Thanks.
But it does look like the claim was based off of his grandmother more than this.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:49 pm to TigerinATL
quote:He's also a visionary. Thanks. I almost forgot that one.
he is the only person that sees the immediacy of the threat
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:52 pm to ell_13
I get that Jon's rep is hardly on par with the abilities he's demonstrated or opponents bested without help or even rescue. Like Ned "slaying Arthur Dayne in hand to hand combat"
He still got full credit, as far as history was concerned.
That fact, where the hero is given full credit for the victory regardless, is how history and legend work- weaknesses are glossed over or even all-out ignored, strengths over-exaggerated...and those who insist on an extremely accurate portrait of real-life heros are usually dismissed as crackpot revisionists - noone wants a flawed hero.
Especially here
Jon is actually a very realistic example of a modern hero, and I don't think he was written that way by accident.
He still got full credit, as far as history was concerned.
That fact, where the hero is given full credit for the victory regardless, is how history and legend work- weaknesses are glossed over or even all-out ignored, strengths over-exaggerated...and those who insist on an extremely accurate portrait of real-life heros are usually dismissed as crackpot revisionists - noone wants a flawed hero.
Especially here
Jon is actually a very realistic example of a modern hero, and I don't think he was written that way by accident.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:52 pm to blueboy
quote:Ugh. Yes. They are. An unexpected "savior" showing up at the perfect moment is exactly what DEM is. See the Eagles in LotR.
Read your own link again. No they aren't.
quote:I'm talking about the fighting. The lost. It was unwinnable and they lost. It wasn't a success just because they saved a few people.
No it wasn't. They weren't there to win a battle. They were there to evacuate people. They lost a lot, but many more escaped.
quote:Are you seriously... seriously... saying the LF's actions were a result of Jon's "inspiration"??? Seriously. That's what you're hanging your hat on here?
Sure they were. LF through Sansa. Jon inspires people to follow him.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:55 pm to 19
I get what he is saying though, the GOTWiki calls it the Massacre at Hardhome and it says the following:
So while Jon performed well in his role there, many don't seem to count it as some great tactical victory in his / humanity's favor.
- Also I agree that Jon is a very realistic example of a hero, as are most of the characters in this story, with their own individual flaws and strengths.
quote:
The wildlings were ultimately successful in evacuating around 5,000 people, but at least as many were killed and revived. Aside from the Free Folk evacuees, the only tactical advantage that the Night's Watch gained from the massacre was the information that Valyrian steel is lethal to White Walkers, and even that was only discovered by accident when most of their dragonglass was lost, and is limited in practical use by the rarity of Valyrian steel weapons.
So while Jon performed well in his role there, many don't seem to count it as some great tactical victory in his / humanity's favor.
- Also I agree that Jon is a very realistic example of a hero, as are most of the characters in this story, with their own individual flaws and strengths.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:55 pm to 19
quote:He gets most credit, no doubt. It reminds me of Harry Potter, oddly enough.
He still got full credit, as far as history was concerned.
When they're trying to talk Harry into teaching the other students Defense and he has to explain that a ton of it is luck yet people still give him credit for escaping death so many times.quote:
Jon is actually a very realistic example of a modern hero, and I don't think he was written that way by accident.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:56 pm to Sasquatch Smash
Posted on 8/15/17 at 1:57 pm to ell_13
quote:Ugh, no, they aren't.
Ugh. Yes. They are
quote:None of that was unexpected.
unexpected
quote:Since that was the sole reason they were there, yes it was.
It wasn't a success just because they saved a few people
And yeah, Jon inspired others, who then inspired others, so through the transitive property, Jon inspired them. Absolutely.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 2:00 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:Are we really supposed to assume 5k wildlings were rescued from that? There were only 6 ships there to bring them back. And how many little boats would be needed to go back and forth to get that many people on them from the time the wights attacked to the end of the battle? Really?
The wildlings were ultimately successful in evacuating around 5,000 people
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