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Started By
Message
re: GoT S7 E5 "Eastwatch" MAESTERS THREAD
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:16 am to Aubie Spr96
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:16 am to Aubie Spr96
I mean they just have made a very strong point that secrets aren't really kept that well or at all in this world they have created.
I also just don't like the beat the viewers head with "OH HAVE YOU FIGURED OUT WHOS JONS PARENTS ARE YET?!?!?!?"
I also just don't like the beat the viewers head with "OH HAVE YOU FIGURED OUT WHOS JONS PARENTS ARE YET?!?!?!?"
0
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:17 am to OMLandshark
quote:quote:
ETA, its been a known "plothole" that three Kingsguard were at the ToJ, but no one asks why.
Was it known they were at the Tower of Joy, or just "somewhere"?
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:18 am to CorporateTiger
As far as they were concerned, Jon was the true king, which is why they weren't with Viserys.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:19 am to OMLandshark
I've always assumed Ned came back and handwaved it to Robert. Tywin was worried he would still be in hot water for hedging his bets and never raised an objection.
Thinking about this logically though, the famously honorable Ned Stark coming back from rescuing his sister (who died how exactly?) with a baby whose mom he is incredibly evasive about is a pretty big hmmmmmmmm
Overall people overlooking this one entry from a Maester is the least confusing part of the saga.
Thinking about this logically though, the famously honorable Ned Stark coming back from rescuing his sister (who died how exactly?) with a baby whose mom he is incredibly evasive about is a pretty big hmmmmmmmm
Overall people overlooking this one entry from a Maester is the least confusing part of the saga.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:19 am to TigerFanatic99
They knew they were guarding Lyanna in Dorne, but I don't know if they knew the exact location.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:20 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
It just isn't discussed due to Robert being a bit butthurt.
The winners write the history books.
quote:
Even if people know about it though, without a child it's not really meaningful.
But Ned knew.
quote:
ETA, its been a known "plothole" that three Kingsguard were at the ToJ, but no one asks why.
Right - 3 at ToJ (Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent and LC Gerald Hightower - reduced to just 2 in the show), 3 with Rhaegar at the Trident (Ser Barristan, Prince Llewyn Martell and Ser Jonothor Darry) and Jaime at KL with the mad king.
Only Selmy and Kingslayer survived Robert's Rebellion. Both pardoned, retained their position in the KG and Ser Barristan become Lord Commander.
Not only 3 KG members at the ToJ - but the realm's best swordsman (Dayne) and the LC (Hightower). Was always a huge clue that someone of greater importance than the Prince's kidnap victim was being guarded there.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:20 am to Scoob
quote:
-the hound is expendable.
Sorry, but he is. maybe, but I think he has business left with the Stark girls
OML is not allowed to speculate on what that business may be.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:20 am to CorporateTiger
quote:Yes but do we know at what point they actually go married? That's what the question was about. Could've very well been towards the very end of Robert's Rebellion.
They lived for a pretty good amount of time. Rhaegar "kidnaps" Lyanna, Brandon and his father go to KL to demand an explanation, they are killed, Aerys sends a raven to Arryn demanding he turn over Ned/Robert, Arryn refuses, the Baratheons and Starks (et al) raise their armies, battle of trident Rhaegar dies, KL stuff happens, war ends, Ned rides down to Dorne for ToJ.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:20 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Was it known they were at the Tower of Joy, or just "somewhere"?
Well Ned returns Arthur Dayne's sword to his sister. So everyone knows that Ned went and killed those Kingsguard in Dorne and rode back with his sister's body (and Jon).
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:21 am to CorporateTiger
Yeah, I just don't see people like Tywin, Varys, or Barristan buying the story. It's definitely a suspension of disbelief to tell a better story.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:23 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But Ned knew.
Ned also had no intention of putting Jon on the throne.
The circles of people who knew about the marriage and knew about Jon presumably don't overlap much.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:23 am to Ace Midnight
quote:It's also the basis for twins. One KG for each royal there.
Not only 3 KG members at the ToJ - but the realm's best swordsman (Dayne) and the LC (Hightower). Was always a huge clue that someone of greater importance than the Prince's kidnap victim was being guarded there.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:23 am to OMLandshark
So if there was an annulment and a wedding then all that noise about Lyanna being raped was obviously bullshite--something Ned would have clearly realized when he saw his sister after she had just given birth and told him to care for the child. If the rape story was bullshite then why would Ned continue to back Robert?
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:25 am to King George
quote:
Yes but do we know at what point they actually go married? That's what the question was about. Could've very well been towards the very end of Robert's Rebellion.
Sorry I guess my point was that Lyanna lives months past Rhaegar's death and they presumably parted ways before that. So Lyanna at least lived probably about 9 months after the wedding
I think it is just more logical that they had this done in secret (maybe the three Kingsguard knew), never told anyone, and no one has read that Maester's shite stories.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:25 am to Jorts R Us
quote:
If the rape story was bullshite then why would Ned continue to back Robert?
The only person who buys the rape story is Robert himself. No one even at the time of Robert's Rebellion really thought Lyanna was abducted and raped by Rhaegar, but that they ran off together.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:26 am to King George
quote:
Pretty sure the script Gilly read from said the maester did it in secret.
A maester doesn't grant annulment, a Septin qould have to and it would be news that would surely slip out. You think Varys wouldn't know about it?
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:26 am to Hot Carl
I think Lena Hedley is pregnant so they're writing it into the show.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:27 am to Jorts R Us
Aerys just killed Ned's brother and father. Aerys then demanded Jon Arryn turn Ned over to be executed.
Ned had plenty of reasons to back Robert. Also he was friends with Robert.
Ned had plenty of reasons to back Robert. Also he was friends with Robert.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:29 am to Tiger in NY
quote:
A maester doesn't grant annulment, a Septin qould have to and it would be news that would surely slip out. You think Varys wouldn't know about it?
Pycelle is the one who announces that Joffrey can "legally" set aside Sansa. I think it would require both, but there are plenty of stories of drunken Septons doing plenty of secret weddings (Tyrion for example), so I'm sure they just paid off some rando.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:29 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
Rhaegar "kidnaps" Lyanna
Yeah - it's widely assumed that the romance between Lyanna and Rhaegar started around the time of the Tourney in Harrenhal, in 281. The "kidnapping" occurred in 282 and Robert's Rebellion reached it's culmination in 283, including Battles at the Trident and ToJ, as well as the sack of King's Landing.
Ergo, it is easy to infer that they were meeting clandestinely, she became pregnant sometime in 282 and Rhaegar spirited her away to Dorne to hide her until the baby could be born. Rhaegar was literally willing to (and did) sacrifice everything for the heir. Lyanna did, too.
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