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re: GoT S7 E3 Thread: 'The Queen's Justice' Maester Thread
Posted on 7/31/17 at 10:56 am to Napoleon
Posted on 7/31/17 at 10:56 am to Napoleon
Since Robert won the throne by conquest, it seems like Gendry would be next in line under the current setup. I realize he's a bastard, but he is the last remaining son of Robert right?
Regardless, whoever takes KL will have won the throne by conquest and therefore be the rightful heir. Everyone in the discussion is a usurper in the end
Regardless, whoever takes KL will have won the throne by conquest and therefore be the rightful heir. Everyone in the discussion is a usurper in the end
1
Posted on 7/31/17 at 10:58 am to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Pretty sure that's the knife that was used to try and kill Bran. (Littlefinger's?)
He could be going for a "Take 2" in using the dagger to kill Bran, but since Bran has said he won't try to be the Lord of Winterfell and Jon Snow is now ahead of him being the King in the North, I don't see why LF would take such a risk at this point.
Granted, if Bran knows about Jon's heritage, he could just as easily know that LF betrayed Ned. LF could hear of Bran making another vision that there's no way he could have known about, and then LF will try to kill him over it. But if he kills Bran, that still spells certain death for LF.
This post was edited on 7/31/17 at 11:00 am
Posted on 7/31/17 at 10:59 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
The mongols effectively integrated units and tactics of conquered peoples in their strategy.
That is maybe the single most interesting thing about the Mongols to me. How Genghis was able to recognize leadership capabilities in those he conquered is one of his greatest skills
Posted on 7/31/17 at 10:59 am to Putty
quote:
Tyrion is skilled in the arts of war and military tactics.
Prior to the last two episodes he prevailed in every military encounter he lead, all against significant odds. He just underestimated his brother/sister in the last few skirmishes. Now that he knows that Jaime and Cersei have become tacticians as well, the game is on.
Is he?
Let's recount his battles:
1) Fighting against a bunch of ruffians in the Mountain Men
2) Knocked out at Green Fork
3) Tywin saved his butt at Blackwater (granted, he did all he could up to that point but even then)
4) Needs Daenerys to come back to save them at Meereen
5) Currently getting whipped all over Westeros
There is an obvious hole without Selmy, Mormont, or Naharis. Tyrion's only encounter with a skilled opposing commander required an arse-saving by his father and the Tyrells.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:00 am to Green Chili Tiger
I think the screen grab of littlefinger holding a dagger is a flashback to LF handing off the dagger to the assassin sent to kill Bran
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:04 am to musick
Don't post reddit information here. There are known spoilers
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:05 am to SCLSUMuddogs
I thought it was pretty well sewn up that Joffrey stole that dagger and gave it to the assassin to kill a Bran.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:07 am to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
Don't post reddit information here. There are known spoilers
Didn't know that, but this is literally a crackpot theory that has some info to back it up. No spoilers in my link.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:08 am to CorporateTiger
In the books it's pretty obvious that it's Joffrey, but they never clarified it in the series.
ETA: I'm also not certain if it was ever fully confirmed in the books
ETA: I'm also not certain if it was ever fully confirmed in the books
This post was edited on 7/31/17 at 11:09 am
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:09 am to Napoleon
quote:
Robert was legitimized by killing all the other Targaryens, thus making him by blood the last claimant to the throne.
Robert's succession to the Iron Throne had more to do with the power and support he assembled. Line of succession helped him win that support, but Viserys was still alive and had the better claim. Robert wasn't a contender until he united the Baratheon army with Houses Arryn and Stark. Only then did other houses fall in line and recognize his claim, which was relatively weak.
quote:
Jon Snow is reverred in the north for many reasons, but being the SON of Ned Stark is a huge point. Once the truth comes out there, will it change anything?
Line of succession meant very little when Jon was at the wall. Other houses put little emphasis on Jon being Ned's son until Jon assembled an army of Wildlings. And several of the northern houses still refused to support Jon until he combined his army with House Arryn. It was only then that line of succession help Jon gain support from other houses.
In both cases, power came well before claim.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:11 am to SCLSUMuddogs
I don't think it is locked in stone, but it is pretty settled. I just don't see another viable alternative. LF was in KL at the time all this happened, there isn't a realistic way for him to pull all that stuff off in the right timeline.
The Joffrey theory makes much more sense.
The Joffrey theory makes much more sense.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:12 am to jrodLSUke
Power is whereever the people believe it to be
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:13 am to SCLSUMuddogs
Yeah, I read the leaked season 7 plot points and now I'm pretty bummed out I did. The shite you don't see coming is what make the show so brilliant.
This post was edited on 7/31/17 at 11:16 am
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:13 am to jrodLSUke
Man I really like GOT but you guys are some major nerds.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:17 am to RandySavage
"Tell Cersei I want her to know it was me."
What I'm betting was going through Olenna's head: Those are some hell of last words.
What I'm betting was going through Olenna's head: Those are some hell of last words.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:19 am to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
In the books it's pretty obvious that it's Joffrey, but they never clarified it in the series.
Jaime would never send anyone to do his dirty work (plus we get his POV that confirms its not him), and Cersei would not be stupid enough to arm someone with a Valyrian Steel dagger. No one would have time to know about it, especially in time to arm someone with a Valyrian Steel dagger that could be directly traced to the Lannisters. It had to be Joffrey.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:20 am to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
Since Robert won the throne by conquest, it seems like Gendry would be next in line under the current setup. I realize he's a bastard, but he is the last remaining son of Robert right?
If you are just going by line of succession, then Gendry's claim would mean almost nothing. After Tommen's death, and because all legitimate Baratheons were dead, then the line of succession would have gone to House Lannister through the Queen Mother (Cecei).
So technically, the next in line would have been Jaime, then Tyrion, then the next Lannister in line. Tommen may have been a bastard, but Cercei's marriage to Robert was legitimate.
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:23 am to Napoleon
quote:
Robert was legitimized by killing all the other Targaryens, thus making him by blood the last claimant to the throne. Due to Baratheons being cousins to Targs.
Robert had a stronger claim then Jon Arryn and Eddard yes. That claim came after the fact when the winning side won. And with Ed not wanting it, it made it easier. That is not what I meant to be getting at. The Lannister's will not just step aside because Jon has a claim. The countless arguing over who is the right heir does not matter until the war is over. And then it will only matter if Dany and Jon are both still standing.
quote:
This is why he wanted Dany and Viseious killed.
Yes, he was a paranoid fool. I don't see any Targarian loyalist running to help Danny.
quote:
The people of Westeros DO place blood right as important.
They do but time and time again we have saw that power is the most important thing.
quote:
Jon Snow is reverred in the north for many reasons, but being the SON of Ned Stark is a huge point. Once the truth comes out there, will it change anything?
A very small piece of why he is "reverred"
quote:
Dany's claim is based on being the last remaining Targ
Yes and nobody gives a shite except her advisors. Her army is not even made up of loyalist.
quote:
Cersei's claim is that there are no heir's so power reverts back to the Queen Regent until an Heir can be produced.
She rules out of fear and the backing of her army.
quote:
If it was just about Power, Lannisters would have always sat the throne since the rebellion.
If you think the Lannisters had more power than the combines forces of Roberts side you are mistaken. Maybe as one house but not the combined might. Only reason the Lannisters joined Robert was because they wanted to be on the winning side.
This post was edited on 7/31/17 at 11:26 am
Posted on 7/31/17 at 11:24 am to RandySavage
Did the show tell us how Cersei and Jaime knew that Tyrion would go to take the Rock? It was a great rope-a-dope, suckering the Unsullied in, letting them take it, then stranding them there. In order to pull it off they had to have known they were coming.
The Lannister's taking High Garden made sense, they needed the provisions.
The show never really touches on how the Lannisters know Dani would go for the Rock and not straight for a siege of KL, at least I don't remember seeing it.
The Lannister's taking High Garden made sense, they needed the provisions.
The show never really touches on how the Lannisters know Dani would go for the Rock and not straight for a siege of KL, at least I don't remember seeing it.
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