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Message
re: GoT S6: E10 "The Winds of Winter" BOOK READERS
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:30 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:30 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
That's nonsense. It was clear before Ned's head came off. There was no other reasonable interpretation of the fever dream and "Promise me, Ned." If you didn't catch that, clear as day, canon "fact" then it is no surprise that you're chasing "Tyrion is really a Targ." Nonsense.
It's a theory - and an interesting one. I'm open to it, not chasing it! In SoS, Tywin is quoted:
“Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”
This is not curious? They had Tywin say as much in the show as well. What does it mean?
In addition, there is the old "three heads" of the dragon thing. Does each head have to be Targaryen blood? Tyrion has a noted fascination with dragons, and it meant something when he approached and freed the dragons without harm. That can mean something as well.
quote:
The improprieties, if they happened, were at the beginning of the marriage, not the end. The falling out between Aerys and Tywin were well prior to Tyrion's conception. If anything, Tyrion is the most Lannister of the three children.
He was raised a Lannister, as Jon was raised a Stark bastard. We don't know exactly what happened during the bedding of Tywin/Joanna. Exact details are not given, and Ser Barriston's term "taking liberties" could mean many things. I doubt he would accuse his King of rape, out of respect, fear, and duty. If he did it once, why not a second time? He put Tywin's son and heir on the Kings Guard, perhaps as punishment or in spite. Something was definitely going on there.
quote:
The one thing I'll grant you is that Tyrion's obsession (in the books - almost grafted on at the end of the series, if at all) with dragons is about the only slim support for his being Targaryen. But, while I think he very well may be the third head of the dragon, I do not think he is Targaryen. This is sort of "the opposite" of R+L=J, which has been a generally accepted fact, subject to retraction by the author, rather than some crackpot, "it's only there if you look for it" theory so popular on the intartubes.
Very well. It all could be moot, or it could forshadow something very interesting. Do you have evidence that all three heads of the dragon MUST be Targaryen blood?
4
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:30 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
He cooked a singer in a stew. Totally necessary
Remember, everything he did, he did for the family.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:31 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
Uh, there certainly is - and you just quoted the very evidence I was siting. Tyrion very easily could be a Targaryen.
*Citing frick you spell it right
You are saying that Aerys banged Joanna on her and Tywin's wedding night and that produced Tyrion years later? That is the only scrap of evidence we have of Aerys and Joanna possibly having sex
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:32 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
He cooked a singer in a stew. Totally necessary
That was Tyrion. He had a really good reason and he gave that guy an opportunity to avoid it. It's a subtle difference, but an important one.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:33 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
Do you have evidence that all three heads of the dragon MUST be Targaryen blood?
There is nothing in the text to suggest this is an absolute requirement.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:35 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Recall the one thing that Tywin hated: laughter. He didn't trust it. So, imagine how much laughter Tyrion generated.
I'd say he hated Tyrion for that more than his drinking and whoring. Tyrion used humor as his armor against his father and the world at large.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:35 pm to Ace Midnight
Could have just gave him a quick and easy death or just ripped out his tongue.
"The hands of gold are always cold but a woman's hands are warm"
beautiful
"The hands of gold are always cold but a woman's hands are warm"
beautiful 
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:41 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Yes, but it's also within the context of the characters though. It's highly unlike Ned to sully his honor by producing a bastard. Ned refused to address Jon's mother always saying he was of his blood. Ned is given a promise by his sister to keep. There is a connection between Jon, Arya and Lyanna. There were 3 Kingsguard protecting Lyanna.
Do you have anything close with Tyrion being Aerys son? Just that he liked dragons, had slightly lighter hair, and mismatched eyes? What's within Tyrion's character and arc that points to him being Targaryen. I can give you several from Jaime and Cersei's arc as contrast though that parallel with the Targaryen's. There's really not shite to the theory. Tywin hates Tyrion because he's a mockery of him, not that he's a product of Aerys. Tyrion would have died right after Joanna kicked the bucket if he had any real reason to suspect this was Aerys child.
Also people stretching about Tyrion has to be a Targaryen because of the 3 headed dragon prophecy is also false because Aegon is still alive. That would mean Jon,Dany,and Aegon would fulfill the 3 headed prophecy. It also really doesn't make sense for Tyrion to be a Targaryen because it doesn't add anything to the story. He would be a bastard and have no claims to anything and would then lose any claim he would have to Casterly Rock if something happens to Jamie.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:41 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
This is not curious? They had Tywin say as much in the show as well. What does it mean?
Honestly, I think it is more verbal abuse and belittling - essentially, Tyrion doesn't deserve to live, as a grotesque dwarf, if he weren't of Tywin's blood.
Here are some parallels you made me remember though:
quote:
He was raised a Lannister
And, no matter what, he was at least half Lannister. Tywin and Joanna were both born Lannisters and were first cousins.
quote:
Jon was raised a Stark bastard.
As it turned out, Jon is a Stark on his mother's side, although the Starks weren't big into incest.
So, I agree there are some interesting rabbit holes once parentage is thrown into question.
And, interesting parallel with reality - since the completion of the human genome map, and the study of various historical, royal figures with known, living male and female line descendants - there is a 1 to 2 percent false paternity rate per generation. Interesting to say the least.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:42 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
“Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”
This is not curious? They had Tywin say as much in the show as well. What does it mean?
It means that they hate each other and wish they weren't related. They'd both be overjoyed not to be father and son. But both of them know deep down that they're defined by the other. Tywin can't doubt that Tyrion is his because he's a twisted version of himself, and Tyrion knows he is Tywin but with a sense of humor and a sympathy for the weak.
quote:
In addition, there is the old "three heads" of the dragon thing. Does each head have to be Targaryen blood? Tyrion has a noted fascination with dragons, and it meant something when he approached and freed the dragons without harm. That can mean something as well.
But this adds nothing to the character. It's merely a plot point, would actually regress Tyrion as a character, and give him a happy ending he's always wanted. Tyrion needs to pay for murdering his own father, when Tyrion could have simply escaped and fought him another day.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:45 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
But Tywin made the whore his father was banging walk the streets of Lannisport naked. Totally unnecessary cruel. Could have just banished her. Or hell killed her
Bet that bitch learned a lesson though
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:46 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
*Citing frick you spell it right
Woops! frick you too :)
quote:
You are saying that Aerys banged Joanna on her and Tywin's wedding night and that produced Tyrion years later? That is the only scrap of evidence we have of Aerys and Joanna possibly having sex
I've never heard of an overlapping 3-year pregnancy, so I'm obviously not saying that. I don't think it is hard to understand that I am suggesting that perhaps Aerys fooked her more than once. It could have happened.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:00 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:13 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
I really don't see how you all don't notice her lips instantly drop when Lyanna says he will be my king from this day until my last. She was pissed. She refused LF earlier because she thought the notion of there being a choice between her and Jon was ludicrous and thought she didn't need him anymore. That's why she instantly looks at him.
It was obvious to me and it's basically been confirmed by the actress who was told how to act out the scene. All those bitching about me and others having this opinion earlier, please eat your crown now.
quote:
UncleBlazer
Not a chance Sansa opposes John or sides with LF. She is smiling as they all proclaim allegiance to John and then gets worry as she realizes the implications relative to LFs actions. Period.
The subterfuge by the actors is just that.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:17 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:It means that Tywin is ashamed of having fathered an imp and entertains the thought that Tyrion is not his, because his strong Lannister genes could not have produced an imp.
“Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”
This is not curious? They had Tywin say as much in the show as well. What does it mean?
So, embarrassment and arrogance.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:19 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Not a chance Sansa opposes John or sides with LF. She is smiling as they all proclaim allegiance to John and then gets worry as she realizes the implications relative to LFs actions. Period.
I don't know man. I think Sansa is rightfully upset and hears LF out to begin season 7. They chat and hatch a few plans nothing too sinister, then he drops the bomb that Jon needs to die. She feeds him to Ghost.
But I 100% believe she is upset about not receiving any credit. I mean she is Lady of Winterfell 2 different ways and won the damn battle for Jon. He was outclassed by Ramsay before she saved the day.
Also why did you quote my name with a laugh emoji?
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:19 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Not a chance Sansa opposes John or sides with LF. She is smiling as they all proclaim allegiance to John and then gets worry as she realizes the implications relative to LFs actions. Period.
The subterfuge by the actors is just that.
I can't possibly see her siding with LF, but don't you think she's at least a little agitated that she's gets no recognition?
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:23 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
I can't possibly see her siding with LF, but don't you think she's at least a little agitated that she's gets no recognition?
She did from Jon, up on the battlements when he insisted she take the Lords suite because she is the Lady of Winterfell, the sitting Stark. He admitted that her army from the Vale saved the day.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:25 pm to MardiGrasRazorback
quote:
Yeah. If we are truly thinking about Sansa's character, I don't think even she knows how to feel. She's happy for Jon, obviously, because many times she is smiling or at least looks touched. She's incredibly concerned about LF, made very clear by her expression after she makes eye contact with him.
She has already told Jon that she doesn't trust LF and that she considers Jon a Stark, so I don't think that's it. Jon gave her the Lord's rooms because she deserves them, so she knows he's not trying to claim Winterfell. It could very well be that Sansa is happy for Jon but is truly worried about what power might do to him. She has seen only the negative effects of what power does to people. She wants Jon to remain humble and honest and true, but her experiences may prevent her from really believing that it can happen.
quote:
MardiGrasRazorback
Well said. Sansa is not jealous of John. That would be ridiculous story telling. After what they have been through, she should be ecstatic at a re-emergence of House Stark, regardless of who it is under. Her position at Winterfell is secure and she is safe (after LF is removed and not considering the WWs).
Posted on 6/29/16 at 3:26 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
I don't know man. I think Sansa is rightfully upset and hears LF out to begin season 7.
You're wrong. Sorry.
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