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re: GoT S6: E10 "The Winds of Winter" BOOK READERS
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:22 pm to skirpnasty
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:22 pm to skirpnasty
quote:
The King's guard was there guarding that tower, and they are only allowed to guard the King. That means the only reason they are there is that the baby is Rhaegar's son.
quote:
You're right, they guard the king, which is why they had no business being there. They weren't with the king, they weren't with the prince, they weren't even with the prince's heirs. The Kingsguard were explicitly acting out of line regardless of the circumstances, at least this one explains why the most honorable knight alive isn't following his orders from the King. A+L is plausible to me for this reason alone, he was there the ENTIRE time, even when he shouldn't have been. He didn't ride away to battle, why would he not be with Rhaegar? Jon was at best 4th in line and at worst just a Targ bastard.
Holy frick.
0
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:27 pm to UncleBlazer
quote:
Nope there is actually zero evidence of that. We learn from Ser Barristan that Aerys possibly took certain liberties with Joanna on Tywin's wedding night making it impossible for him to father Tyrion on that occasion. Honestly, if Tyrion turns out a Targaryen in the books, I will be pissed.
Uh, there certainly is - and you just quoted the very evidence I was siting. Tyrion very easily could be a Targaryen.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:28 pm to iluvdatiger
quote:lol obsessed much?
I sent the video clip of TOJ to my coworker who is deaf and asked him if he could read their lips. Haven't gotten a response yet.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:38 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
Uh, there certainly is - and you just quoted the very evidence I was siting. Tyrion very easily could be a Targaryen.
They're all false trails and bullshite. Tyrion is Tywin's son. The story and themes support this. If there's a Lannister who is a Targaryen, it is Jaime and Cersei. That makes much more narrative sense and doesn't destroy the relationships between characters in the way Tyrion not being Tywin's son would.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:44 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
They're all false trails and bullshite. Tyrion is Tywin's son. The story and themes support this. If there's a Lannister who is a Targaryen, it is Jaime and Cersei. That makes much more narrative sense and doesn't destroy the relationships between characters in the way Tyrion not being Tywin's son would.
The story and themes also support Jon Snow being Eddard Stark's bastard son, until the story (at least the TV version) confirms that this is not the case.
Enough clues were left suggesting that Jon Snow could actually be Lyanna's son, which the show proved to be the case.
There are also clues suggesting that Tyrion may not be Tywin's son. Actually quite a few on both the show and in the books.
There is a reason Tywin hates Tyrion, and it very well could be because Tyrion is not his son, but the son of the Mad King. It makes sense.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:48 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:We're not back on this shite, are we?
Tyrion very easily could be a Targaryen.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:50 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
The story and themes also support Jon Snow being Eddard Stark's bastard son
The only objective evidence of this was Ned's word. The fact that his word was pretty solid was contradicted by the words themselves. Plus, no one believes words over actions of someone like Ned.
quote:
Enough clues were left suggesting that Jon Snow could actually be Lyanna's son, which the show proved to be the case.
I think there was very little on the show. Maester Aemon lamenting on how terrible Dany's situation being a Targaryen, "alone in the world" - when Jon walks into frame is about it. And even then, that's too clever by a half. Even if you knew (as I did) that Jon was actually Targaryen at that point, he was with Maester Aemon, himself a Targaryen and therefore, neither was "alone."
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:51 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
oh, Summer child....
You do realize he was talking about the bedding ceremony during Tywin and Joanna's wedding, right?
A wedding that occurred before Cersei and Jaime were born?
Years before Tyrion was born?
quote:
you just quoted the very evidence I was siting. Tyrion very easily could be a Targaryen.
You do realize he was talking about the bedding ceremony during Tywin and Joanna's wedding, right?
A wedding that occurred before Cersei and Jaime were born?
Years before Tyrion was born?
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 1:52 pm to saintsfan92612
quote:
So apparently HBO just confirmed that Sapochnik will not direct an episode in season 7.
Unfortunate but not surprised. He'll be getting job offers left and right.
At least we get the guy who filmed the famed Arya chase scene back!
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:02 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
The story and themes also support Jon Snow being Eddard Stark's bastard son, until the story (at least the TV version) confirms that this is not the case.
The story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, Rhaegar giving Lyanna the blue roses (that were at her deathbed in the books) at Harrenhal, Daenery's vision in the books in the HotU of the Blue winter rose growing from "a wall of ice", and the telling of the Legend of Bael the Bard all points pretty heavily to Rhaegar and Lyanna being Jon's parents. Not Ned.
quote:
There are also clues suggesting that Tyrion may not be Tywin's son. Actually quite a few on both the show and in the books.
Such as? And the bedding story wouldn't be one seeing as it occurred 3 years before the birth of the twins.
There's also a stronger suggestion that Aerys wanted Joanna as a youth, but she spurned him so he treated her the way he did as a result.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:04 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I think there was very little on the show.
Very little, in the case of Jon being a Targ, is "enough."
quote:
Even if you knew (as I did) that Jon was actually Targaryen at that point, he was with Maester Aemon, himself a Targaryen and therefore, neither was "alone."
None of us "knew" until last Sunday when it was confirmed. Up to that point, it was simply a speculation and wide-spread idea, because there were "enough" clues.
There are a few clues sprinkled throughout the books and show that Tyrion may not be what he appears to be. Maybe even Jamie/Cersei. It's a possibility, which is all I am saying.
So what is the argument? Their are clues saying that the Mad King banged Tywin's wife. This makes it possible that all of Tywin's children could be the bastards of Aerys Targaryen. This explains why there could be an intense hatred of Tyrion by Tywin. It is a theory, which ASOIAF is full of. What exactly is the issue?
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:04 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
There are a few clues sprinkled throughout the books and show that Tyrion may not be what he appears to be. Maybe even Jamie/Cersei. It's a possibility, which is all I am saying.
And we're waiting for the presentation of these clues.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:07 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
The story and themes also support Jon Snow being Eddard Stark's bastard son, until the story (at least the TV version) confirms that this is not the case.
Enough clues were left suggesting that Jon Snow could actually be Lyanna's son, which the show proved to be the case.
Yes, but it's also within the context of the characters though. It's highly unlike Ned to sully his honor by producing a bastard. Ned refused to address Jon's mother always saying he was of his blood. Ned is given a promise by his sister to keep. There is a connection between Jon, Arya and Lyanna. There were 3 Kingsguard protecting Lyanna.
Do you have anything close with Tyrion being Aerys son? Just that he liked dragons, had slightly lighter hair, and mismatched eyes? What's within Tyrion's character and arc that points to him being Targaryen. I can give you several from Jaime and Cersei's arc as contrast though that parallel with the Targaryen's. There's really not shite to the theory. Tywin hates Tyrion because he's a mockery of him, not that he's a product of Aerys. Tyrion would have died right after Joanna kicked the bucket if he had any real reason to suspect this was Aerys child.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:13 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
None of us "knew" until last Sunday when it was confirmed.
That's nonsense. It was clear before Ned's head came off. There was no other reasonable interpretation of the fever dream and "Promise me, Ned." If you didn't catch that, clear as day, canon "fact" then it is no surprise that you're chasing "Tyrion is really a Targ."
Nonsense. The improprieties, if they happened, were at the beginning of the marriage, not the end. The falling out between Aerys and Tywin were well prior to Tyrion's conception. If anything, Tyrion is the most Lannister of the three children. The one thing I'll grant you is that Tyrion's obsession (in the books - almost grafted on at the end of the series, if at all) with dragons is about the only slim support for his being Targaryen. But, while I think he very well may be the third head of the dragon, I do not think he is Targaryen. This is sort of "the opposite" of R+L=J, which has been a generally accepted fact, subject to retraction by the author, rather than some crackpot, "it's only there if you look for it" theory so popular on the intartubes.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:19 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz
quote:
None of us "knew" until last Sunday when it was confirmed. Up to that point, it was simply a speculation and wide-spread idea, because there were "enough" clues.
Read the Tower of Joy again. There was not one question asked in that sequence. They all knew what they'd find up those stairs and it was the rightful king/queen of Westeros. We all knew and GRRM didn't even play it close to the chest. Saying that Aerys wanted to frick Joanna is not close to evidence for this.
quote:
This explains why there could be an intense hatred of Tyrion by Tywin. It is a theory, which ASOIAF is full of. What exactly is the issue?
As I stated earlier, it cheapens Tyrion and Tywin's relationship. All it does is turn Tywin into the evil stepmother from Disney films. Both Tyrion and Tywin would like for this to be true as well. It lets Tyrion completely off the hook for murdering his own father. It just removes all conflict from the character, because they are both defined as characters through the relationship with one another. It's the most interesting relationship in the books. It is utterly ruined if Tywin is not a projection of what Tyrion could have become if he weren't a dwarf, and Tyrion is not a projection of Tywin's inner shame, insecurities, and demons.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Tywin hates Tyrion because he's a mockery of him
Recall the one thing that Tywin hated: laughter. He didn't trust it. So, imagine how much laughter Tyrion generated.
And, it turns out that Tywin DID like a little whoring and carousing, just on the DL, rather than out in the open. The only significant difference between the 2 is that Tyrion isn't really cruel by nature and Tywin wasn't open about his appetites.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:27 pm to Ace Midnight
Tywin wasn't cruel by nature. He was cruel when it was deemed necessary
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:28 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
He was cruel when it was deemed necessary
He cooked a singer in a stew. Totally necessary
ETA shite my bad, thought you said Tyrion
But Tywin made the whore his father was banging walk the streets of Lannisport naked. Totally unnecessary cruel. Could have just banished her. Or hell killed her.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 2:28 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
Tywin wasn't cruel by nature. He was cruel when it was deemed necessary
We just have to agree to disagree. He seemed to be a good grandfather, but he was cruel to all three of his children to a fault. This cruelty, however "necessary" he thought of it was innate and fricked the three of them up pretty badly.
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