re: Game of Thrones S4:E4 "Oathkeeper" A Meltdown for Book Maesters (SPOILERS)

quote:

---

think

---

key word though.

HBO did not confirm it was the Night's King though, a King of the WW maybe, a King of the Others for sure. He was obviously the leader. But is he the Stark that was screwing an Other? We don't know that yet.

That is who the "Night's King" is.

quote:

---

it implies that the 13 companions that set out to find the COTF

---

Can you refresh me on why they were looking for the COTF?

Wiki on Night's King

quote:

---

According to legend, the Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete. He was a fearless warrior, who was named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars", he chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.[1] (Her description matches that of the Others.)

He brought her back to the Nightfort and after the unholy union, he declared himself king and her his queen, and ruled the Nightfort as his own castle for thirteen years. During the dark years of his reign, horrific atrocities were committed, of which tales are still told in the North. It was not until his own brother, the King in the North, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces that the Night's King was brought down and the Night's Watch freed. After his fall, when it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others (possibly in similar way to Craster), all records of him were destroyed and his very name was forbidden.[1] It is likely this led the lords of the North to forbid the Night's Watch to construct walls at their keeps, ensuring the keeps would always be accessible from the south.
Recent History

While on his way north, Bran Stark recalls stories told to the Stark children of the Night's King and the Nightfort by Old Nan, servant in Winterfell. She said some people believe the Night's King was a Bolton, a Magnar out of Skagos, an Umber, a Flint, a Norrey, or a Woodfoot, who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. However, she identifies the Night's King as a Stark of Winterfell and brother to the King of the North and hints his name too was Bran.[1]

---

It was in one of Old Nan's stories she told Bran.
Here's the excerpt:

"The Others," Old Nan agreed. "Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks." Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, "So, child. This is the sort of story you like?"

"Well," Bran said reluctantly, "yes, only . . . "

Old Nan nodded. "In that darkness, the Others came for the first time," she said as her needles went click click click. "They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They swept over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children."

Her voice had dropped very low, almost to a whisper, and Bran found himself leaning forward to listen.

"Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest. Yet here and there in the fastness of the woods the children still lived in their wooden cities and hollow hills, and the faces in the trees kept watch. So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds"

So we are lead to believe he was saved by the COTF. But what if he wasn't? Then what happened? How did he survive? Has anyone else ever been able to ward off the Others or find a way to co-exist with them? Craster, that incestuous bastard found a way, as we know, he sacrifices his sons to the Others.

I theorize that the Last Hero did the same thing. He pleaded for his life promising the Others whatever they wanted which in this case, was his sons. And so the Others marked the LH as they marked Craster.

The Last Hero then went back to the kingdoms of men raising up more men for the Night's Watch claiming that he had the ability to resist the Others. He fathered children and stealthily sacrificed them to the Others which brings him squarely in line with the tale of Night's King.

So the Last Hero goes on publicly fighting the Others while secretly sacrificing to them. He builds the Nightfort where he can walk the line between the Others and human kind

quote:

---

If the Last Hero and Night's King are the same people, it implies that the 13 companions that set out to find the COTF were the original Night's Watch.

---

why would we assume they are the same people? The Last Hero was during the Long Night. The night's king lived during the age of heroes. Am I missing something? George, is that you?

ETA: game of thrones wiki is all about this being the Night's King FYI...

quote:

---

The Night's King is an character in Game of Thrones, appearing in the "The Histories & Lore: The History of the Night's Watch" featurette included in the Season 2 Blu-ray. He is a legendary figure known both in the Seven Kingdoms and among the Free Folk dwelling Beyond the Wall. He is shown in the fourth episode Oathkeeper, of the fourth season.

---

https://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Night%27s_King

quote:

---

it implies that the 13 companions that set out to find the COTF were the original Night's Watch.

---

If the Night's king was the 13th commander, wouldn't that put him at the very least around 80-100 years after the first night's watch?

Think about our limited term presidents.
Number 13 Millard Fillmore was never hanging out with George Washington. 13 leaders is a long chain. Plus they aren't term limited or anything.
So if he was the 13th leader, and even if there were 13 companions, I still don't in anyway see how that would be the original night's watch.

quote:

---

So we are lead to believe he was saved by the COTF.

---

I think we are led to believe that the others killed the shite out of him. Nowhere in that story did I take it that the Children of the Forest (fricking stop with the god damn acronyms, everybody) saved him. Kinda seems like you are stretching to fit your theory.

quote:

---

I theorize that the Last Hero did the same thing. He pleaded for his life promising the Others whatever they wanted which in this case, was his sons. And so the Others marked the LH as they marked Craster.

The Last Hero then went back to the kingdoms of men raising up more men for the Night's Watch claiming that he had the ability to resist the Others. He fathered children and stealthily sacrificed them to the Others which brings him squarely in line with the tale of Night's King.

So the Last Hero goes on publicly fighting the Others while secretly sacrificing to them. He builds the Nightfort where he can walk the line between the Others and human kind

---

That is quite a theory...

quote:

---

Brandon Stark, also known as Brandon the Builder and Bran the Builder, was the legendary founder[1] of House Stark who is said to have lived during the Age of Heroes. According to legend, he built the Wall and Winterfell.[2] Some stories say he did it with the help of giants. Some claim Brandon also helped Durran build Storm's End when he was a boy.[3]
It is said that Bran the Builder gave the Night's Watch Brandon's Gift, a stretch of land 25 leagues wide, but some maesters argue it was another Brandon of House Stark.[4]

---

Brandon the Builder was the first Stark and was never a member of the Night's watch, but it is possible.



I don't see how this series can end in two books, even if each is 2,000 pages.

I think GRRM wrote himself into a hole.
Lol

quote:

---

fricking stop with the god damn acronyms, everybody)

---

GRRM made ASOIAF have characters with extremely long titles like COTF. It saves typing. I think most get what people are talking about.

The Night's king story led me to believe a Female was in charge of the White Walkers.