re: Game of Thrones S3-ep4 *Spoilers* <Book Readers>: ‘And Now His Watch Is Ended'

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I just finished those chapters and while Blackfyre might be Illyrio's motive, I'm not 100% convinced it's Varys's

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I'm convinced he is a Blackfyre. Why? GRRM has basically set him up as the anti-Littlefinger. From book 1 they have been matched against one another as the two best players of the game. Littlefinger's motives completely revolve around Littlefinger. Varys is different. His motive lies with his family and his promise to his dying sister to put her son on the throne. He's sort of a foil to Ned Stark too, but that's more Aegon/Jon Snow.

I haven't read the books in awhile but didn't Tywin/Cersei tell Joffrey to make Loras a KG in order to foil the Sansa/Loras wedding? As a result, the Tyrells try to marry her to Willas.

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How did y'all know it was the letter?

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Because I didn't catch it in the book and I caught it in the show. So there. I redeemed myself for not catching it the first time.

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I'm not sure why they are taking away the surprise of little finger taking Sansa away. Wasn't this a complete surprise in the books?? Unless I'm remembering incorrectly I'm not sure why they are ruining the surprise.

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Yeah it was a surprise in the books, Ser Dontas was the one giving Sansa hope of being rescued. But the showrunners have said in the past that they will let their actors playing major roles take over for some of the small bit players.

Basically it's a way to keep the good actors and major characters involved as much as possible while making the story a little simpler for TV purposes.

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I just re-watched part of Season 2, Ep.10 "Valar Morghulis", and they did not make Loras part of the KG in the little ceremony. They only talked about wedding Marg to Joff. He was part of Renly's KG, but that doesn't count.

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Well, hell. Maybe I was thinking of him being in Renly's. shite.

Yeah my gf made me rewind it to watch it again.

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Soooooo.....

How did y'all know it was the letter?

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Man, I'm not trying to be a dick, but for all the bashing of the non-readers (Ftr I'm almost positive ALL of them have read the books or at least know what happens, especially Stew, Koko, and Bluedude (no joxy)) that goes on in here for missing shite we think is obvious, that was the one of the most obvious tells I've seen the show pull off, and they did it masterfully.

Tywin and Cersei are talking about what he is doing to save Jamie, and he finishes the letter, stares at the camera, and says "ALL THAT I CAN", then there is a closeup of him pressing the seal on the letter.

I mean, it was subtle enough without spelling it out, but that was CLEARLY the letter sealing the deal on the RW.

Such an awesome fricking scene. Tywin bitch slapping Cersei was one of the best scenes of the series so far imo. The show has really been fantastic developing Tywin. The scene from Season 1 with Jamie while he's skinning that deer. All the scenes with Arya from Season 2. All great and all new material not in the book. I am really going to miss him as a character, but glad we'll get him for another season. Pretty sure, his death will be the Season 4 finale with Tyrion leaving KL.

Anyway, not a big deal that Edmure wasn't in this. Next week looks like it's Stark heavy, and since Tywin just sent the letter, next week Robb will get a proposal from Frey about the wedding to restore their alliance. Makes perfect sense.

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The contrast in Jaime and Cersei's story lines are starting to show

Jaime loses everything but gains his soul while Cersei consolidates power and loses her's

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Absolutely, Hugo. And it's going to get even better with Jamie truly becoming "good" and Cersei unraveling. Their scenes together when Jamie returns to KL are going to be so badass.



The scenes with Varys were perfect as well. The scene explaining his castration were perfect, even though in the book he didn't have the sorcerer. He was just talking to Tyrion. But it does show the viewer that he isn't some spineless eunuch. He is not to be fricked with.

Then combine that with his scene with the Queen of Thorns, and you are really finding out the kind of player he is.

And it's not a big deal about Loras. He is NOT in the KG yet in the show. Went and rewatched the scene with Sansa and QoT and there is no mention of Loras.

Cersei warning Tywin about the Tyrells wasn't for nothing. Now when they bring the idea of a Tyrell/Stark marriage, Tywin will see the danger and appoint Loras to KG and Tyrion to marry Sansa.

That is the only way Sansa would go with LF. If she was with Loras, she would have no reason to go with him. I thought they may leave the Tyrion wedding out, but now I doubt it.

Also, the only reason for the Pod stuff is to show that Varys has turned LF's whore to his side. That's why they showed Pod with the girls, so that Varys can then ask her about it showing that she is Varys' spider now.

Will be interesting to see if the PW will be a Varys/QoT plot and not a LF/QoT plot like in the book. Maybe they'll all be involved?? But with Tyrion getting blamed for it, it seems odd if Varys is supposed to be the planner. Maybe they'll just swing it that that's why Varys helps Tyrion escape/meet Tywin, because he feels guilty and never intended for Tyrion to go down for it.



I definitely think Sam will kill an Other on the way back to the Wall. The dragon glass needs to be revealed IMO. He and Master Aemon will discuss it back at The Wall. Doesn't have to be a huge scene, but I do think it needs to happen.


Astapor was very very well done. Dany really pulled off that scene. Wasn't sure she'd be able to. Agreed that it is going to suck to see her sit around for the next 3 seasons after that. They better make Daario a huge badass to make that passable to the non-readers.


And the scene with Beric/Thoros/Hound/Arya

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I think with the information given this episode, we're getting the Purple Wedding this season. I'm thinking it will be the last episode, and that Littlefinger will pick of Sansa from the wedding. I guarantee this will be the last three lines of the season:

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"Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game."
"What . . . what game?"
"The only game. The game of thrones."

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Badass post OMLS. I agree, this convinced me PW will be the Season 3 finale. Your ending is perfect.

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Watched again before ved, very epic ending. If I hadn't read the books, I would expect Khalessi to be on her way to Westeros right now.

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I have been watching the show with my GF (who hasn't read the books) and she is of the opinion that Dany is about to head to Westeros as well. It sounds like the non-book readers feel the same.

She also didn't understand what was happening with Theon at all or who the random guy who "helped/kidnapped him was".

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Did I inadvertently start another titty baby bitch fest in the non-readers thread? I didn't realize it was THAT bad. Cocomo is the biggest fricking bitch. Omg he is horrible.

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I thought The readers did a good job of letting them have their thread for the show. They just see a name and flip out. The one dude who was referring to you with "Yeah, I read all the books but a=only talk about the show, what's so hard for the others to understand"

They want a thread, where not one person who has read a single book about the show posts in. The five ringleaders should just email each other, damn.