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A defense of Everybody Loves Raymond
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:04 am
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:04 am
I don't agree with it in its entirety, but the writer raises good points and it is a good defense of a once adored, nor reviled show.
LINK
I do like the overall point that writing off something as garbage just because its multi camera is ridiculous. And I do think the show benefited from strong writing and brilliant performances. Garret and Boyle, especially, are comic geniuses.
LINK
quote:
Rosenthal also bucked the then-popular trend of cramming the show with storylines, a trend prompted by the success of Seinfeld, which placed four storylines—one for each character—in nearly every episode. Friends told at least three stories and sometimes six. Arrested Development, a show that would pop up toward the end of Raymond’s run, would sometimes attempt nine stories within its running time, often spreading them over multiple episodes. Indeed, the trend since the ’70s had been toward more and more stories, even as the running time of sitcom episodes grew shorter.
Raymond deliberately returns to the formats of the sitcoms of the ’50s and ’60s, focusing on one main storyline that involves all of the characters and allows each to comment on the action. A minor event—say, Ray’s daughter asking him about God—will spiral outward, until the entire family is examining why it isn’t more religious. If a storyline is about Ray’s brother Robert (Brad Garrett) or one of the parents, Ray won’t be shoehorned into it where he doesn’t belong, essentially becoming a supporting character for that half-hour, before returning to the show’s forefront in the next episode. This gives the show a deliberately classic feel, which Rosenthal enhanced by stripping out as many contemporary references as he could. When other shows were straining to cram their episodes as full of incident as possible, Raymond was giving its jokes room to breathe.
I do like the overall point that writing off something as garbage just because its multi camera is ridiculous. And I do think the show benefited from strong writing and brilliant performances. Garret and Boyle, especially, are comic geniuses.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:08 am to Baloo
I seriously don't understand the hate for the show.
I will admit that I generally hate multi camera sitcoms save for Seinfeld and Frasier, but I do like ELR.
It makes me laugh and Ray is a likable enough character to prevent me from completely writing the show off like some do. I really don't get it and I'd love to read the arguments from people who abhor it so tremdendously
I will admit that I generally hate multi camera sitcoms save for Seinfeld and Frasier, but I do like ELR.
It makes me laugh and Ray is a likable enough character to prevent me from completely writing the show off like some do. I really don't get it and I'd love to read the arguments from people who abhor it so tremdendously
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:12 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
I seriously don't understand the hate for the show.
Besides the fact that it's coma inducing?
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:13 am to Baloo
It's sort of like Mama's Family (the Carol Burnett sketch version, not the sitcom spinoff) in that with a little tweaking and played without a laugh track, it could have been a harrowing family drama. The wife was a serious bitch.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:17 am to Baloo
quote:
writing off something as garbage just because its multi camera is ridiculous
I don't have a problem with multi-camera shows, although I will admit to enjoying single-camera shows more and more.
I do, however, disagree with Pilot Tiger when he says that Ray is a likable character. My problems with ELR have always been with its content. Ray is such a pushover for everyone in his life that it literally makes the show uncomfortable to watch. Essentially, I don't respect Ray at all, and why would I care to watch someone I think so poorly of?
This post was edited on 2/14/12 at 10:18 am
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:25 am to WikiTiger
Actually, I think the show works because Ray is kind of unlikeable. He is everything his brother accuses him of: a guy who has everything in life handed to him and doesn't really appreciate it. It creates great subtext, and the family's hostility towards one another feels real, even though it is balanced by genuine love and affection.
It feels like a real family. Which is a hard thing to pull off. Most shows, even "edgy" shows, have an idealistic form of family or friends. ELR is a glimpse at how we really are.
It feels like a real family. Which is a hard thing to pull off. Most shows, even "edgy" shows, have an idealistic form of family or friends. ELR is a glimpse at how we really are.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:26 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Ray is such a pushover for everyone in his life that it literally makes the show uncomfortable to watch. Essentially, I don't respect Ray at all, and why would I care to watch someone I think so poorly of?
Ray is a product of having an unemotional dad and an overbearing, overprotective mother. So in some ways, it's not his fault for being the way he is.
Also, it's funny how generally dumb he is, especially for being a somewhat famour sports journalist
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:28 am to Baloo
quote:
And I do think the show benefited from strong writing and brilliant performances. Garret and Boyle, especially, are comic geniuses.
I can't disagree with this at all, taken from a purely functional standpoint, the show was good. And you're right about Garrett and Boyle.
But...
quote:
Actually, I think the show works because Ray is kind of unlikeable. He is everything his brother accuses him of: a guy who has everything in life handed to him and doesn't really appreciate it. It creates great subtext, and the family's hostility towards one another feels real, even though it is balanced by genuine love and affection.
I agree and disagree here. I think it was a good, but poor, interpretation of a family at times. It seemed to get its jokes from a lot of the wrong places. Not wrong as in incorrect, but "damn, people are like this and that stinks."
I didn't like Ray as a male figurehead of the show. They seemed to push the "inept male" to new heights after Home Improvement.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:36 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
The wife was a serious bitch

Posted on 2/14/12 at 10:56 am to Freauxzen
Raymond is a very unlikeable figure. I cant get into a show where I hate the main character so much. (Everybody Hates Chris)And Debra is absolutely insufferable. She sucks soooo much.
The brother and the dad were the only things that made that show watchable.
Plus I hate shows where the dad looks like a buffoon.
The brother and the dad were the only things that made that show watchable.
Plus I hate shows where the dad looks like a buffoon.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:25 pm to Baloo
That's all very interesting... too bad the actors and most of those story lines were not funny.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:44 pm to Baloo
Why is it reviled? I never heard that?
I used to watch it - and I liked it...Debra was pretty hot...but then it got sort of old and Debra just complained...and then with the kids...ugh, that's real life annoying so I gave up. But it wasn't a terrible show.
Maybe people who used to watch it now claim they always hated it because toward the end of that show it was the most popular "safe show" among families/senior citizens...ranked #1 with the Matlock/Seventh Heaven demographic...and I guess now (in retrospect) its not cool to say you once liked that show.
I used to watch it - and I liked it...Debra was pretty hot...but then it got sort of old and Debra just complained...and then with the kids...ugh, that's real life annoying so I gave up. But it wasn't a terrible show.
Maybe people who used to watch it now claim they always hated it because toward the end of that show it was the most popular "safe show" among families/senior citizens...ranked #1 with the Matlock/Seventh Heaven demographic...and I guess now (in retrospect) its not cool to say you once liked that show.
This post was edited on 2/14/12 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:44 pm to Rex
The episode where. Ray, Robert, and Frank all paint Ray's house was pure gold. Frank heavy episodes were always the best.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:45 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
The wife was a serious bitch.
on Raymond or Mamas Family? i thought Debra was pretty nice for having such a whiny, pussy-arse momma's-boy for a husband.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:45 pm to Baloo
My mother watches the shite out of ELR on TVLand. I think she identifies with Marie 
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:48 pm to Jim Rockford
the best part of the show was the supporting cast, IMO. Raymond was the epitome of the soft-palmed, nonmasculine male type. His self-centered behavior was nauseating.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 12:57 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:
i thought Debra was pretty nice for having such a whiny, pussy-arse momma's-boy for a husband.
I'd whine too if my wife somehow couldn't find time in the day to cook and clean when the kids are all in school all day.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 1:15 pm to Pilot Tiger
quote:
I seriously don't understand the hate for the show.
I could not stand to watch that bitch of a wife.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 1:20 pm to SG_Geaux
I didn't watch a ton of the episodes, but enough to get a fair idea of it all. I was actually quite surorised at how good it was.
As far as the wife, it seemed she got more bitchy later on in the series. I know this is tinfoil hat conspiracy theory territory stuff but I wonder if the writers did that on purpose as Patricia Heaton became more outspoked about her conservative Republican beliefs. I know other conservative actors have said that once they "came out of the closet" about their politics they didn't get as many job offers and hollywood in general gave them the cold shoulder.
I don't know... it's just a theory.
As far as the wife, it seemed she got more bitchy later on in the series. I know this is tinfoil hat conspiracy theory territory stuff but I wonder if the writers did that on purpose as Patricia Heaton became more outspoked about her conservative Republican beliefs. I know other conservative actors have said that once they "came out of the closet" about their politics they didn't get as many job offers and hollywood in general gave them the cold shoulder.
I don't know... it's just a theory.
Posted on 2/14/12 at 2:35 pm to TygerTyger
I watched the series finale. The writers spoke about Debra like she was the greatest creation ever.
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