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re: Will baseball always allow the richest teams to buy their wins, or will it ever…
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:11 am to Crimsonite94
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:11 am to Crimsonite94
You don't watch much baseball, do you?
Just b/c you spend bookles of $$$ doesn't mean you are guaranteed a playoff spot. Look at the Phillies and Mets. They are both top-9 in payroll and missed the playoffs b/c they haven't spent wisely.
Scouting and development matters. Look no further than the Astros and the Braves(regardless of the NLCS outcome.)
The entire Braves infield(sans Dansby, who was a trade) was drafted and developed by the organization.
Just b/c you spend bookles of $$$ doesn't mean you are guaranteed a playoff spot. Look at the Phillies and Mets. They are both top-9 in payroll and missed the playoffs b/c they haven't spent wisely.
Scouting and development matters. Look no further than the Astros and the Braves(regardless of the NLCS outcome.)
The entire Braves infield(sans Dansby, who was a trade) was drafted and developed by the organization.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 9:21 am
1
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:13 am to SteelerBravesDawg
Exactly. Didn’t Atlanta fall to fourth in the NL East in payroll for 2021?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:13 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Fair enough. I looked at Spotrac briefly but didn't scroll over so all I saw was the 28 man roster totals (all ~$20MM lower than the link I provided) and knew that wasn't right.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:15 am to Crimsonite94
man your MSB threads really are not going well for you
are you 12 or retarded?
are you 12 or retarded?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:16 am to Spelt it rong
I’m guessing the MGM one is the active roster total probably?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:21 am to CapstoneGrad06
Yep. 3rd or 4th depending on whom you looked at.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:22 am to Spelt it rong
quote:The only reason I did that for the Astros is because their circumstance is unique in that their $28 million dollar ace pitcher hasn’t played in 2 seasons and they still have to pay him.
Ok do the same for all the other teams with injured or suspended players
Every team has injuries. But the Astros’ situation is unique.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 9:23 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:23 am to CapstoneGrad06
Dp
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 9:26 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:29 am to OWLFAN86
Bro you think I give a shite? It’s a message board. Lmaoooo
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:31 am to Metaloctopus
The NBA has a soft-ish cap.
Once you hit the cap, your ability to make transactions becomes limited. Once you hit the luxury tax line, you find your options more limited. And staying over the tax for multiple years incurs a repeater penalty that multiplies the amount of tax paid based on the number of years you have stayed over.
MLB has a soft cap where you basically collect tax money if you are below a certain threshold and pay tax if you are above a different one but have no other limits on transactions I am aware of from a cost perspective.
Hell, MLB allows teams to pay other teams to take their players, much like the Yankees once paid the As to take David Justice during the timeframe covered by the Moneyball book and movie. Can’t do that in the NFL and it is limited to a certain amount of outgoing cash for a whole season in the NBA.
Once you hit the cap, your ability to make transactions becomes limited. Once you hit the luxury tax line, you find your options more limited. And staying over the tax for multiple years incurs a repeater penalty that multiplies the amount of tax paid based on the number of years you have stayed over.
MLB has a soft cap where you basically collect tax money if you are below a certain threshold and pay tax if you are above a different one but have no other limits on transactions I am aware of from a cost perspective.
Hell, MLB allows teams to pay other teams to take their players, much like the Yankees once paid the As to take David Justice during the timeframe covered by the Moneyball book and movie. Can’t do that in the NFL and it is limited to a certain amount of outgoing cash for a whole season in the NBA.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:04 am to Metaloctopus
quote:Well, in the NBA you can’t go over the cap to sign free agents. You’re only allowed to go over the cap to re-sign your own players. But you’ll have to pay luxury tax.
Doesn't the NBA just have a soft cap, where if you go over, you pay a luxury tax?
For example. If your team’s payroll is $120 million and the cap is $130 million, you can’t sign Steph Curry for $30 million and go $20 million over the cap and just pay luxury tax on it. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t go over the cap to sign other players.
But, for example, if the Pelicans had a payroll of $120 million and the cap is $130 million and Zion Williamson just finished up his $5 million dollar rookie contract and is now a free agent, you don’t have to stay under the $130 million dollar cap. You’re allowed to spend as much as you want to retain your own player. So you can offer him $30 million if you want and go $20 million over the cap and pay luxury tax.
It’s to prevent teams from losing their own players to other teams because of a cap hit.
So that’s why the Warriors were so far over the cap and paid so much luxury tax. Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green were homegrown players and so their first contracts weren’t very big. But they were amazing players. So when their contracts were up, the Warriors had to spend a ton of money to keep them, and they went way over the cap to do it.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 10:05 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:14 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Well, in the NBA you can’t go over the cap to sign free agents. You’re only allowed to go over the cap to re-sign your own players. But you’ll have to pay luxury tax.
For example. If your team’s payroll is $120 million and the cap is $130 million, you can’t sign Steph Curry for $30 million and go $20 million over the cap and just pay luxury tax on it. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t go over the cap to sign other players.
But, for example, if the Pelicans had a payroll of $120 million and the cap is $130 million and Zion Williamson just finished up his $5 million dollar rookie contract and is now a free agent, you don’t have to stay under the $130 million dollar cap. You’re allowed to spend as much as you want to retain your own player. So you can offer him $30 million if you want and go $20 million over the cap and pay luxury tax.
It’s to prevent teams from losing their own players to other teams because of a cap hit.
So that’s why the Warriors were so far over the cap and paid so much luxury tax. Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green were homegrown players and so their first contracts weren’t very big. But they were amazing players. So when their contracts were up, the Warriors had to spend a ton of money to keep them, and they went way over the cap to do it.
That's the type of system I was describing, but it doesn't seem like the NBA is operating that way considering the way players all seem to flock to one team to go for a championship. I thought I remembered that players could only be offered a maximum contract by their current team. Which wouldn't stop players from rejecting the offer, and signing somewhere else to a one year deal, so that they could sign another contact the next year for maximum.
Am I remembering that wrong? Or has something changed?
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 10:17 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:22 am to Horsemeat
quote:
Its all about stocking the farm.
And player development. Some teams are a lot better at maximizing their talent than others.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:25 am to Metaloctopus
There are multiple ways to create a super team like what you are describing.
Miami Heat method - Zero out your payroll and land 2-3 superstars and fill the rest of your roster with rookies, role players, and ring chasers
Lakers / Celtics model - Trade for stars who are disgruntled where they are and who force their way out of town, possibly to a specific team.
The Celtics model tends to be “Acquire whoever is available.”
The Lakers, historically and recently, tend to get people who force their way specifically to there both because of it being a major organization and being in LA beats being in Philly, Milwaukee, New Orleans, or several other places where guys like Wilt, Kareem, and Davis were before then.
Miami Heat method - Zero out your payroll and land 2-3 superstars and fill the rest of your roster with rookies, role players, and ring chasers
Lakers / Celtics model - Trade for stars who are disgruntled where they are and who force their way out of town, possibly to a specific team.
The Celtics model tends to be “Acquire whoever is available.”
The Lakers, historically and recently, tend to get people who force their way specifically to there both because of it being a major organization and being in LA beats being in Philly, Milwaukee, New Orleans, or several other places where guys like Wilt, Kareem, and Davis were before then.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:35 am to teke184
quote:
The Lakers, historically and recently, tend to get people who force their way specifically to there both because of it being a major organization and being in LA beats being in Philly, Milwaukee, New Orleans, or several other places where guys like Wilt, Kareem, and Davis were before then.
Right, but the point is that it's still happening, and nothing is stopping it from happening. Whether or not players force their way out is not my point. It's that they all go to one or two places.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:57 am to Spelt it rong
quote:
What does the length of time not played have to do with it?
Because when you have your top player payroll wise miss two compete seasons and possibly not ever playing for the franchise again, it skews your payroll. If you can’t see that JVs situation is different with not playing for two seasons vs Acuna playing almost all of 2020 and half of 2021, I don’t know what to tell you
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:59 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
These numbers come from each players’ salary, signing bonus, and incentives listed via the MLB
From the site. They do have a roster number next to each team so it's not the full 40 man roster
Posted on 10/23/21 at 10:59 am to Crimsonite94
Well the CBA expires in December. A $100 million salary floor and $180 million salary cap have been floated around.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 12:42 pm to Undertow
quote:
And player development. Some teams are a lot better at maximizing their talent than others.
HOU, ATL, and Tampa are the first three that come to mind.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 3:10 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:One thing a team can do is if their player is a free agent and he’s going to re-sign, they can sign him last since they’re allowed to go over the cap to sign their own player.
That's the type of system I was describing, but it doesn't seem like the NBA is operating that way considering the way players all seem to flock to one team to go for a championship. I thought I remembered that players could only be offered a maximum contract by their current team. Which wouldn't stop players from rejecting the offer, and signing somewhere else to a one year deal, so that they could sign another contact the next year for maximum.
Am I remembering that wrong? Or has something changed?
For example, if the Bucks were right at the $130 million dollar cap, but Giannis’ contract is up and he becomes a free agent, his $30 million dollar contract comes off the books. Now the payroll is only $100 million. They can then go out and sign $30 million worth of free agents. Maybe another star player will sign. Now the payroll is back up to $130 million. And now they can re-sign Giannis last since they’re allowed to go over the cap to re-sign their own player. So say Giannis signs for $35 million, the payroll is now up to $165 million, well above the $130 million dollar cap, and they were able to sign another star player simply by re-signing Giannis last in their order of operations.
You’re right about the max contract thing.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 3:12 pm
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