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re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:23 pm to The Seaward
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:23 pm to The Seaward
quote:
The argument was who was the better strikeout pitcher and someone posted that Pedro had a higher K/9 and my point was the going by K% (which I think is a better measure) the difference would have been more even higher in Pedro's favor.
I want to acknowledge how solid this post is just in case nobody else does.
1
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:28 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
I want to acknowledge how solid this post is just in case nobody else does.
I'm not sure if you are being serious or mocking, since I so badly bungled up the wording there. I'm leaning towards the latter, but not totally sure.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:34 pm to The Seaward
quote:Yeah, Pedro's is 2nd best all time behind a guy from 1880 who pitched in 12 games
Pedro's 2000 ERA+ beats that Gibson season by a decent margin.
Pedro's 1999 season is up there too. Just below gibson's 1968 era+
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:35 pm to The Seaward
quote:
the difference between pitching in 1968 and 2000 (in Fenway Park, in a stacked AL East) is night and day
Yeah it would have been interesting to see what those old timers could have done with all the stuff the players of today put in their body. But then maybe they wouldn't have been able to pitch all those innings.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:38 pm to The Seaward
quote:
I'm not sure if you are being serious or mocking, since I so badly bungled up the wording there. I'm leaning towards the latter, but not totally sure.
I was being serious. Good argument. I actually didn't even notice the mistakes on the first read. See my sig. I'm the king of typing jibberish.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:44 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
I was being serious. Good argument. I actually didn't even notice the mistakes on the first read. See my sig. I'm the king of typing jibberish.
Thanks, I appreciate it. This being Tigerdroppings, I usually just assume people are being derisive.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:47 pm to rlebl39
quote:
Although Pedro's peak could be the best peak ever.
That changeup may just be a top 5 pitch of all-time.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:58 pm to 504Voodoo
People on here arguing for Nolan Ryan are arguing about reminiscent memories. Pedro isn't a guy who the average American man would normally have respect for.... unless they really know the numbers or witnessed his dominating pitching performances.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 12:00 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 12:21 am to tigerpimpbot
quote:
People on here arguing for Nolan Ryan are arguing about reminiscent memories
Nope.
They were responding to:
1) What is/defines actual "best" - considering Nolan pitched at a high level for a long time compared to Pedro...
2) All the shitting on Ryan...(which, for whatever reason...has become the drunk chick joke with baseball fans - very fashionable to hate on him - especially kids from the 90's.)
Pedro will never be Ryan. Ever, ever, ever. Pedro might have had better stuff.
But he will never have Ryan's arm. And his career...and his overall value to the HOF.
I've said many times in this thread (Pedro's peak was awesome - though a lot of you are apparently Bill Simmons groupies too - it wasn't the best ever or close (why do people say stuff, as if nobody was alive during it?)
But the Ryan hate is remarkable.
Pitch 6 innings, be awesome, bring in the reliever and so on and so on.
quote:
1997 - The 13 complete games were tied for the second-highest single-season total in all of baseball since Martinez's own career began (Curt Schilling had 15 in 1998, while Chuck Finley and Jack McDowell also reached 13 in a year). However, this 1997 total marks an anomaly in Martinez's career, as he has only compiled as many as 5 complete games in any other season on two other occasions. In the later years of his career, Martinez got a reputation as a starting pitcher who cannot finish what he begins.
I wonder what very important game he started...but couldn't finish????
Hmm? Yankees fans might know.
quote:
Nolan Ryan had 37 complete games in his career allowing 2 hits or fewer, which is more than any other two pitchers combined (Jim Palmer and Jim Maloney are second with 17). Nolan spent the vast majority of his career on sub-par teams, which resulted in his somewhat mediocre .526 winning percentage (324 wins, 14th all time, and 292 losses).
Hmm?
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 12:26 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 12:40 am to Zamoro10
I don't think we've agreed on a single thing in this thread, and that's fine, it's what makes this board tick, but this continued assumption that people think Pedro was one of the best of all-time has anything to do with Bill Simmons is downright puzzling. Do you actually believe that is driving any of this?
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 12:49 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:08 am to The Seaward
I sort of do.
And even if I hope I'm wrong...
It doesn't matter...
Because the opinion is already there.
I think it's public knowledge of Bill Simmons who wrote many articles - and did promote Pedro's years as the best ever.
I don't think people independently research this stuff.
It gets in the subconscious...and this saber-metrics crap...and everyone wanted to think....the last thing they saw was the best ever.
It's an infant human psychology.
People think that someone who saw something in the 80's is a retarded fool...(well, we might be full of nostalgia but at least we have perspective)
Pedro fans have no perspective. It's just fandom right now...
Maybe it will last and he will live for eternity.
Who knows...but...he's suspect...
As Good Will Hunting would say.
Because it's all media now...don't act like you have a real opinion, fool.
And even if I hope I'm wrong...
It doesn't matter...
Because the opinion is already there.
I think it's public knowledge of Bill Simmons who wrote many articles - and did promote Pedro's years as the best ever.
I don't think people independently research this stuff.
It gets in the subconscious...and this saber-metrics crap...and everyone wanted to think....the last thing they saw was the best ever.
It's an infant human psychology.
People think that someone who saw something in the 80's is a retarded fool...(well, we might be full of nostalgia but at least we have perspective)
Pedro fans have no perspective. It's just fandom right now...
Maybe it will last and he will live for eternity.
Who knows...but...he's suspect...
As Good Will Hunting would say.
Because it's all media now...don't act like you have a real opinion, fool.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 1:11 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:26 am to Zamoro10
Ryan's power pitching often left him flat if flirting with a no-no and/or going deep and hard in a heavy K outing..often got shelled the very next time out..especially as an older player.
I vote Pedro. Appreciate his underrated solid 2009 run as a late addition to Phillies 2009 WS trip. Lb-for-lb was Koufaxian filthy and consistent.
I vote Pedro. Appreciate his underrated solid 2009 run as a late addition to Phillies 2009 WS trip. Lb-for-lb was Koufaxian filthy and consistent.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:40 am to TheRoarRestoredInBR
How the frick is thread 8 pages? Pedro has the greatest regular season prime of any pitcher in baseball history
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:22 am to Patton
Nolan Ryan would be my choice, but I grew up watching him pitch. When the players started getting busted for drug use, I personally held that against the players. I know that it isn't fair to the innocent parties (but who's innocent and who isn't) I find it hard to trust any of them. Just my opinion
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:34 am to Zamoro10
quote:
a dominate arm
quote:
had dominate "stuff"
Posted on 8/14/14 at 3:56 am to offshoretrash
Forget, trying, and honestly roads make Pedro more impressive not less. The real reason you can't compare Gibson's 1968 season to Pedro's 2000 is the difference in mound heights.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 4:00 am to Zamoro10
quote:
People think that someone who saw something in the 80's
And God help you if the highlights are in black and white, cause, you know, that shite doesn't count.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 4:49 am to Zamoro10
quote:
.and this saber-metrics crap...
And there it is
Posted on 8/14/14 at 6:20 am to hehateme2285
I'm amazed this argument went 8 pages....
Posted on 8/14/14 at 6:40 am to offshoretrash
quote:I'd love to see that list.
How old are you? There have been 10 to 15 better pitchers than Pedro.
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