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re: Was Jackie Robinson actually really good at baseball?
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:44 am to Wally Sparks
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:44 am to Wally Sparks
quote:
Fun fact: Robinson's original HOF plaque omitted his breaking the color barrier (at his request). It was changed years after his death.
That kind of sucks they went against his wishes after his death. I love that he wanted to be remembered for his play, not his color.
0
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:47 am to TheCaterpillar
The bigger question for me was he the best black baseball player at the time.
There is chatter that Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige were the better players.
There is chatter that Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige were the better players.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:51 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:
The bigger question for me was he the best black baseball player at the time.
Oscar Charleston
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Josh Gibson
Barry Bonds
I think those five are clearly ahead of Jackie. Probably Rickey Henderson as well. I hate comparing position players to pitchers, but then you have Satchel and Bob Gibson. But Jackie is on that next tier, which is pretty damn awesome. Easy Hall of Famer, and in the conversation for "inner circle".
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:53 am to bigpetedatiga
Gibson died before Robinson made his debut. Many consider him to have been one of the greatest hitters of his time. Paige was old. When he made his major league debut, he was listed at 42, but most people thought he was significantly older than that.
Jackie was perfect for the symbol he was. He carried himself with class and hard work. It's a shame so many athletes today, especially black ones, don't remember what guys like Jackie and Hank Aaron did and how they did it.
Jackie was perfect for the symbol he was. He carried himself with class and hard work. It's a shame so many athletes today, especially black ones, don't remember what guys like Jackie and Hank Aaron did and how they did it.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:55 am to Baloo
My father was the biggest Brooklyn Dodgers fan. he said Jackie was the best athlete he ever saw. That said, he was out at home when Yogi tagged him.
Jackie played in his first pro game ion Jersey City Roosevelt Stadium for the Montreal Royals. Stadium is now condos.
Jackie played in his first pro game ion Jersey City Roosevelt Stadium for the Montreal Royals. Stadium is now condos.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:00 pm to Baloo
no love for Cool Papa Bell?
quote:
Let me tell you about Cool Papa Bell. One time, he hit a line drive right past my ear. I turned around and saw the ball hit his rear end as he slid into second -- Satchel Paige
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:01 pm to tmc94
Know how fast Cool Papa Bell was?
Faster than that.
Faster than that.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:02 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
I have heard that Jackie wasn't the best black baseball player at the time, but I'd like to know who was better than him at 28 or under. Anybody?
I'd argue for the man that integrated the American League, Larry Doby-- mind, Doby didn't hit for the same sort of average (.285ish for his career, IIRC)and spent the better part of a decade as a middle of the lineup, 25-35 HR 80-120 RBI guy-- he led the AL in HR twice, RBIs once, slugging, and runs scored in different years.
Mind, Ernie Banks came to Chicago 6 or 7 years later, and Minnie Minnoso would have been at a similar time frame, but I'd actually pick Doby as the best black player of that time frame.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:15 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
A classic pic:
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:27 pm to Baloo
Cap Anson was a damn good first baseman.
Not sure if racist.
Not sure if racist.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:33 pm to Baloo
quote:
Barry Bonds
I would put Henderson in over BBonds easy........
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:34 pm to Baloo
quote:
Barry Bonds
I would put Henderson in over BBonds easy........
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:37 pm to TheCaterpillar
Great player, but probably not as great as he could have been thanks to the color line and his WWII service taking a potential five to seven years off his career.
He didn't make it to the majors until he was 28, yet he still won a batting title, an MVP award, lead the league twice in stolen bases, and had a career batting average over .300.
He didn't make it to the majors until he was 28, yet he still won a batting title, an MVP award, lead the league twice in stolen bases, and had a career batting average over .300.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:52 pm to TexanPete
Cap Anson is probably as racist as that dude meauxjjeaux who starts all those threads on the OT.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 12:55 pm to Baloo
There was an interesting section in Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract that Jackie Robinson was a far better defensive player than people thought he was. He had elite fielding metrics at pretty much every position he played at. He ranks fifth all-time in WS/1000 innings among 2B who played at least 3000 innings at 2B. Robinson played around 2000 innings at 3B. The highest WS/1000 innings at 3B since 1940 is 4.97 by Clete Boyer. Robinson is at 5.52. In the outfield, he was as good defensively as Roberto Clemente and just ahead of some really great defensive outfielders like Dwight Evans and Al Kaline. It just shows you how smart Robinson was that he could be elite defensively at pretty much any defensive position without skipping a beat.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 1:01 pm to Zach
tell the story how Jackie Robinson threw a line drive from the outfield wall to 2B underhanded
Posted on 4/15/13 at 1:13 pm to dukke v
quote:
I would put Henderson in over BBonds easy........
tough call if we go off Bonds per 2001 numbers. I don't care about PED's like most, so I'd have Bonds at the top of the list. I was a huge Henderson fan though.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 1:15 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
so I'd have Bonds at the top of the list
Over Mays or Aaron?????????????? Sorry I can't do this......
Posted on 4/15/13 at 1:22 pm to TheCaterpillar
He was not the first African American in the majors.
I took an elective back in college: Race and Sports in America which covered all of this and I cannot remember who but they had black players playing in the late 1800's in the "major league" at the time.
I took an elective back in college: Race and Sports in America which covered all of this and I cannot remember who but they had black players playing in the late 1800's in the "major league" at the time.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 1:27 pm to dukke v
quote:
I would put Henderson in over BBonds easy........
It's always tough to compare players, especially those with different skill sets because people put different value on different things. But wow. I totally disagree with this. Bonds may have cheated but he's easily the greatest player in his generation both before and after the steroid era. Rickey is a tremendous player, one of the greatest ever even. But Bonds is just in another dimension.
Bonds played in a scandalous era and we can all hate him for being part of it. But before anyone was cheating, he was better than them all. And when everyone was cheating he was still better than them all. Hell, Bonds won more MVPs, gold gloves, and silver slugger awards before he left the Pirates in 1992 than Rickey did his entire career.
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