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Message
re: Was Jackie Robinson actually really good at baseball?
Posted on 4/15/13 at 4:46 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 4/15/13 at 4:46 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Are you arguing leading off is most important
If you are as good at it than ricky was. then YES..........
quote:
I'm all for challenging CW, but if anything it could be argued that better hitters, like Bonds should lead off because they will get more AB's that way.
I disagree..... YES bonds was a great hitter, but to EVER say he was a better as a leadoff man yo are crazy. And since he was such A GREAT LO man it helped the A's and any other team he played for be better......
0
Posted on 4/15/13 at 6:11 pm to dukke v
Your complete fascination with stolen bases ignoring any other hitting category or even defense makes this conversation worthless.
SBs are a net neutral per a massive amount of statistics at 67% rate. Both Henderson and Bonds were excellent base stealers that were well above this clip (both around 80% successful). However the difference in total bases accumulated taking 67% as net neutral comes to approximately 19 bases per season. Not even taking a higher average or more extra base hits or any obvious stat, Bonds can account for that in extra walks alone (which are worth more than a single extra base for a variety of reasons most notably that anyone on base also moves up a base). It's why he scored more runs per game than Henderson despite fewer plate appearances per game and having the bottom of the order having to drive him in.
Why does this even matter? The value of a player goes beyond how many bases they steal. And when everyone concedes a point and you bring it up over and over as your entire argument, you look sort of silly. We get it. Rickey stole a lot of bases. And you hate that Bonds roided. Now can you actually give any reason for Rickey over Bonds or are you just going to keep saying STEAL STEAL STEAL while ignoring every single other statistic?
I'll throw a new one out. Defense is massively underrated and SBs overrated. You could make an argument Bonds' defensive prowess alone made up for the difference in stolen bases. Did he take away 19 bases a year vs Ricky? It's not an unreasonable assumption considering over the course of their careers Bonds had 40 more assists and 45 fewer errors. Most outfield errors account for multiple bases. And errors themselves are are worth more than the bases alone because they extend innings. Assists are probably same as caught stealing and worth 2 for every total base. But let's go back to steals. That's the measure of the one true ballplayer
That must be it
guess what frickchop, I hate Bonds with a bloody passion. And Rickey Henderson has always been one of my favorite players. I just don't argue completely incoherently based on my feelings about a player. Probably the only thing worse is if you had me arguing on behalf of mother fricking Sammy Sosa or against Craig Biggio
SBs are a net neutral per a massive amount of statistics at 67% rate. Both Henderson and Bonds were excellent base stealers that were well above this clip (both around 80% successful). However the difference in total bases accumulated taking 67% as net neutral comes to approximately 19 bases per season. Not even taking a higher average or more extra base hits or any obvious stat, Bonds can account for that in extra walks alone (which are worth more than a single extra base for a variety of reasons most notably that anyone on base also moves up a base). It's why he scored more runs per game than Henderson despite fewer plate appearances per game and having the bottom of the order having to drive him in.
quote:
I have said that Bonds was a GREAT player. While in Pittsburgh..... Once he started ROIDING. How many bases did he steal?????????????
Why does this even matter? The value of a player goes beyond how many bases they steal. And when everyone concedes a point and you bring it up over and over as your entire argument, you look sort of silly. We get it. Rickey stole a lot of bases. And you hate that Bonds roided. Now can you actually give any reason for Rickey over Bonds or are you just going to keep saying STEAL STEAL STEAL while ignoring every single other statistic?
I'll throw a new one out. Defense is massively underrated and SBs overrated. You could make an argument Bonds' defensive prowess alone made up for the difference in stolen bases. Did he take away 19 bases a year vs Ricky? It's not an unreasonable assumption considering over the course of their careers Bonds had 40 more assists and 45 fewer errors. Most outfield errors account for multiple bases. And errors themselves are are worth more than the bases alone because they extend innings. Assists are probably same as caught stealing and worth 2 for every total base. But let's go back to steals. That's the measure of the one true ballplayer
quote:
You have NO CLUE about the game of baseball
That must be it
quote:
Can you get your mouth off of Bonds package?????????
guess what frickchop, I hate Bonds with a bloody passion. And Rickey Henderson has always been one of my favorite players. I just don't argue completely incoherently based on my feelings about a player. Probably the only thing worse is if you had me arguing on behalf of mother fricking Sammy Sosa or against Craig Biggio
Posted on 4/15/13 at 6:31 pm to tmc94
quote:
guess what frickchop
Never heard that, I like it.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 6:53 pm to tmc94
quote:
tmc94
WOW................. Nice easearch...... But I would STILL take Rickey over Bonds if I were starting a team..........
And BTW back On topic..........[in his prime????] I would take Jackie Robinson over Bonds as well...............
Posted on 4/15/13 at 7:28 pm to dukke v
I thought they had banned you based on how quickly you dropped out of the BM thread
Posted on 4/15/13 at 8:03 pm to TheCaterpillar
OP: Google "Jackie Robinson career statistics" then feel free to shut the frick up.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:35 pm to TheCaterpillar
Damn, JR was the TRUTH 
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:59 pm to Zach
quote:
In the 90s I saw an old photograph of the Dodgers that was truly amazing. In the bottom of the 9th an opposing player had hit a walk off HR. The photo showed the entire infield of the Dodgers trotting off toward the dugout as the batter rounded the bases. But Jackie stayed at his position and was staring at the batter. He was making sure the hitter touched every base. If he missed one Jackie was going to appeal the play. Now, that's competitive.
This was after the Giants Bobby Thomson's famous "Shot Heard Round the World" HR to win the 1951 NL Pennant
Posted on 4/16/13 at 1:32 am to TheCaterpillar
Are you fricking stupid?
Posted on 4/16/13 at 7:08 am to VolsMissthe90s
I was lucky enough to do a radio show from a old-timers kind of card show and got to sit with Buck O'Neil for about a hour talking about the way things were in his day
I was about 30 at the time and thought I knew shite. The way he spoke about Jackie and the things he went through, plus how much he thought of the way Jackie played, opened my eyes to things beyond numbers...Buck never played in the bigs with Jackie but did play with him before the callup. He wasn't the best "black" player of his time but he was the ONE
that's the way it was then and frankly I'd take Buck O'Neils opinion over anyone...JMO
I was about 30 at the time and thought I knew shite. The way he spoke about Jackie and the things he went through, plus how much he thought of the way Jackie played, opened my eyes to things beyond numbers...Buck never played in the bigs with Jackie but did play with him before the callup. He wasn't the best "black" player of his time but he was the ONE
that's the way it was then and frankly I'd take Buck O'Neils opinion over anyone...JMO
Posted on 4/16/13 at 7:41 am to slutiger5
quote:quote:
This is not a flame or a troll
quote:
Yes it is.
How is this a troll? This is a very legitimate question, and I was also curious to know some more background.
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