re: Tony Dungy

nm - mos post below

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You mean like those who say they hate the sin but love the sinner? I usually think those people are lying and homophobic (and/or in the closet themselves)

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This. Sure, people like to focus on the actual sex rather than who a person is, and doing so is dishonest, at best--is a person who NEVER has sex in his or her life asexual, or is their sexuality determined by who they are attracted to? I (and science) say it's the latter. So to focus on the action of having sex is wrong, because if a gay person does the "right" thing and either abstains for the rest of his or her life, then he's causing harm to himself. If he does the other "right" thing, then he's hurting the other party in his marriage in part (and not the smallest part, by a long shot) because he is being dishonest with his partner, himself, and society.

So the people who claim to be be anti-gay but not homophobic are not only homophobic, but they are also something much more sinister.

Excellent coach, good role model in SOME areas, unabashed bigot in others.

PoliBoard:

As for Tony Dungy the person
I'm behind him 100%. People on here are claiming that he hates gays, but I haven't once heard him advocate any violence or hurled insults at homosexuals. He campaigns against gay marriage, but I guarantee you he could sit down in a room with homosexual men and women and have a cordial discussion about the topic. I'm sure nobody would change their mind, but it doesn't mean that Dungy has hatred for each homosexual person. That would be like saying, "Tony Dungy campaigns against drinking and driving, therefore he hates all people who have ever been drunk behind the wheel."

As for separation of church and state, the original intent was to keep the state out of the church, not the other way around.

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As for your interpretation of the Wall of Separation, Thomas Jefferson disagrees with you in his writings, as does the Treaty of Tripoli.

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Possibly.

But I also refuse to think of Dungy as a bad father, even if the rumors in this thread were true. If I have a son that drops out of college and sells drugs for a living, I will do everything possible to help him live in a manner that would be appropriate with my family values. I will still love my son and support him 100%, but I would also be disappointed in his life choices.

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But I also refuse to think of Dungy as a bad father,

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Same here. Heck, even if what AIH says is true, that doesn't make Dungy a bad father because chances are, he would not have known his son were gay.

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If I have a son that drops out of college and sells drugs for a living, I will do everything possible to help him live in a manner that would be appropriate with my family values. I will still love my son and support him 100%, but I would also be disappointed in his life choices.

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Horrible analogy because people don't choose their sexual orientation.

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Horrible analogy because people don't choose their sexual orientation.

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Some adult men's sexual orientation is young children, is that wrong?

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and scientifically shown that pedophilia is a mental disorder, while homosexuality is not.

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Okay.

I'll end by with my original point that Tony Dungy was a good coach, and I believe a good mentor to many of his former players and coaches. I would listen to anything he had to say about football or life issues.

Also, I believe in the Bible and what it says. If the Bible is wrong, then I will have been misguided in my beliefs. However, I won't apologize for follwing its teachings, most importantly to love my neighbor as I love myself.

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Some adult men's sexual orientation is young children, is that wrong?

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Wow, way to use a tired old bullshite argument. Youa re comparing sexual intercourse between to consenting adults to the predation of a child molester?

Guess we know on what side of the fence you fall on.


As far as our founding Fathers attitude towards religion, they were Deists. They believed that there was a creator but it had long since left man to his own devices. They believed organized religion (most notably christianity) was a European cancer that should not be allowed to infect their young nation. See John Adams letters to Jefferson regarding staffing the University of Virginia.

Our country did not go wrong when we started to go away from religion. It went wrong when people became dependent upon it, and now we elect leaders based on their religious views rather than their individual competence. We make laws and inact policies based on the writings of a bunch of half mad ascetics living out in the desert.

Lunacy.

Oh well. To bring this back to topic, I'm tired of Tony Dungy's schtick. Just go home and read your Bible and try to find some level of comfort in your delusions.

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When you spout such degrading things about people's personal religious beliefs you are showing the same level of intolerance that you perceive is being shown homosexuals. That makes you part of the problem. As I said before, this is the ugly state of what passes for discourse in this country today and it completely stifles any hope for productive debate.

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Amen (pardon the pun)

I had some beliefs, Sophandros made some points that went against my views, I really didn't have solid to facts to contradict it other than faith. Therefore, I just acknowledged his points and will move on.