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PIs on underthrown balls. Anything that can be done about that?
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:12 pm
We've all seen it before. WR and DB are going down the field, QB underthrows it and makes the WR stop to wait and/or come back for it, and the DB bumps the WR as a result of the sudden stop in motion and then boom, flag and auto first down and in the NFL it's a spot foul all because the QB threw a shitty pass. That bothers me a lot that offenses get rewarded for terrible passes.
I don't know how you would go about doing it, and I know there's already so much subjectivity in some of these calls so it's probably unpopular to add even more, but I feel like at least in the NFL if a WR has to stop for a ball then it shouldn't be a spot foul, maybe like 5 yards and a first. It's completely different than a DB tackling a receiver that burned him and just doesn't want him to make the catch.
I don't know how you would go about doing it, and I know there's already so much subjectivity in some of these calls so it's probably unpopular to add even more, but I feel like at least in the NFL if a WR has to stop for a ball then it shouldn't be a spot foul, maybe like 5 yards and a first. It's completely different than a DB tackling a receiver that burned him and just doesn't want him to make the catch.
8
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:16 pm to WaterLink
quote:
That bothers me a lot that offenses get rewarded for terrible passes.
They make this throw purposefully every game.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:20 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
They make this throw purposefully every game.
And it needs to be stopped. You should throw with the intent to complete the pass, not for drawing cheap flags when your WR is blanketed.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:24 pm to WaterLink
quote:
And it needs to be stopped. You should throw with the intent to complete the pass, not for drawing cheap flags when your WR is blanketed.
They are throwing the ball for the receiver to come back and get it. PI is a side effect but not the main goal most of the time.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:29 pm to WaterLink
quote:
You should throw with the intent to complete the pass,
They are throwing to complete it. Its a back shoulder throw purposefully thrown against man coverage when DB's show a tendency to run with their back to the LOS. Its not like they are throwing an uncatchable pass hoping for PI. Well, decent QB's aren't anyway.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:30 pm to WaterLink
Back shoulder pass is intentional
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:34 pm to James11111
quote:
They are throwing the ball for the receiver to come back and get it. PI is a side effect but not the main goal most of the time.
I'm not disputing that there are comeback routes but post routes and go routes that are underthrown shouldn't be rewarded to that extent. And therein lies the problem because you can always have plausible deniability that "oh that's how that play is supposed to work" when most people looking at a route, especially down the field, can tell when a ball is underthrown by mistake or by design. But the mistakes can always be said "oh that was by design" and you don't really have any way to prove that.
I just think it's cheap and wish there was a way to isolate those certain plays and not reward them so much. It's hard to do. One of the myriad of reasons offense has it so easy and playing defense is very hard.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:42 pm to WaterLink
quote:
And therein lies the problem
There is no problem. Your point is ridiculous.
It’s like saying a TD doesn’t count if an offensive player recovers a fumble in the endzone bc it was a mistake to fumble in the first place.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:46 pm to WaterLink
It's why I don't like PI being a spot foul in the NFL. At least the way the NFL officiates it today. Every week, there's a ticky-tack call that doesn't get called in another game.
Just make it 15 yds like at every other level. If it's truly a foul, it'll still be a 1st down for the offense. But don't leave it up to the refs to completely flip the field with how advanced offenses and kickers are these days.
Just make it 15 yds like at every other level. If it's truly a foul, it'll still be a 1st down for the offense. But don't leave it up to the refs to completely flip the field with how advanced offenses and kickers are these days.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:47 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
It’s like saying a TD doesn’t count if an offensive player recovers a fumble in the endzone bc it was a mistake to fumble in the first place.
First off, no it's not like that at all, and second off in certain situations yeah a fumble that gets recovered by the offense in the endzone goes back to the spot of the fumble. Look up your 2 minutes in the half and 4th down rules.
This post was edited on 9/8/23 at 10:50 pm
Posted on 9/8/23 at 10:55 pm to WaterLink
Sometimes a defender gets their head around and intercepts an underthrown pass. Most of the time they plow into the receiver when they get beat and are trying to make up ground… that shouldn't be rewarded either.
On the other hand, I'm all for making PI a 15 yard penalty
On the other hand, I'm all for making PI a 15 yard penalty
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:17 pm to smokeswithwolves
I don't know what the answer is, but between PIs, increased tolerance of holding by OL, and defenseless player (esp with QB) BS, there is just too much advantage for offense these days. It just makes the game less fun to watch.
Posted on 9/8/23 at 11:21 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:Most of the time.
They are throwing to complete it. It’s a back shoulder throw purposefully thrown against man coverage
But there are definitely situations where an INT is the same as a punt and it’s just thrown up with the intention of it either being a low odds reception, a PI, an arm punt, or no harm no foul incompletion.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 1:01 am to Basura Blanco
quote:
They make this throw purposefully every game.
It is incredibly hard to pull off but there are teams that have definitely figured it out and they get deep in the playoffs.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 3:43 am to WaterLink
Stop calling BS penalties and let the men play.
Refs will need tommy john surgery they throw so much
Refs will need tommy john surgery they throw so much
Posted on 9/9/23 at 5:07 am to WaterLink
They need to change pass interference to only be if the defender grabs the receiver or causes him to leave his feet. Contact should otherwise be allowed. This is football, after all. If you want the ball, fight for it.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 5:39 am to James11111
quote:
They are throwing the ball for the receiver to come back and get it. PI is a side effect but not the main goal most of the time.
On go routes? He’s not talking about comebacks or back shoulder throws
This post was edited on 9/9/23 at 5:40 am
Posted on 9/9/23 at 6:37 am to Basura Blanco
quote:
Its a back shoulder throw purposefully thrown against man coverage when DB's show a tendency to run with their back to the LOS.
A back shoulder throw is a bit different. Usually that’s thrown outside/to the sideline and will avoid incidental contact assuming the DB is actually in good position.
I think what OP is talking about is when the ball is basically thrown behind the DB, and the receiver then comes back to it through the DB and PI is thrown on the DB. People always say the DB should get his head around, but imo it’s unreasonable to expect a DB to track an NFL WR while also having his eyes on the ball in the air all the time.
Posted on 9/9/23 at 8:34 am to WaterLink
It’s called pass interference. The DB literally interferes with the WRs ability to catch a catchable ball by running into them. It doesn’t matter if the ball is under thrown or not if it’s still catchable. If the DB is actually making a play on the ball with his head around and makes contact, then it’s not interference.
Now, is the penalty too harsh? That’s another story. But if the foul occurs 40 yards down the field and the WR was likely to catch the ball without the PI, then why shouldn’t the offense get the yardage?
Now, is the penalty too harsh? That’s another story. But if the foul occurs 40 yards down the field and the WR was likely to catch the ball without the PI, then why shouldn’t the offense get the yardage?
Posted on 9/9/23 at 8:45 am to WaterLink
As a former DB myself, I agree with the rule I have to say because as DBs we have to know where the ball is and where we ourselves need to be in order to not get called for PI. I played in a different time then these kids of today because they teach them to watch the WRs actions or motions today, and I just don't like it. I mean it's good when you judge them correctly with watching their eyes or body language when the ball is about to arrive and you get your arm and hands up in between their arms and hands to rip the ball away. But a lot of times the ball is right over their heads and all they need to do is turn around for an easy Int, but because they're focused on the WRs they never turn around. So, if that ball is underthrown, the WR is trying to make an adjustment on the ball to catch it and if the DB is in the way, then it's PI because they have to go through the DB to try and catch it. That's just the way I see it, anyways.
This post was edited on 9/9/23 at 8:46 am
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