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Started By
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re: Pete Thamel: Brian Kelly to LSU. Could be announced tomorrow. So Fickell to ND?
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:17 pm to RLDSC FAN
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:17 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
quote:
I'm surprised, I thought he was a tremendous fit at ND.
He can now put a roster together to win a national title. It's hard to win at ND with their academic standards. I know the CCB is going crazy right now, but this is an outstanding hire, IMO
Eh, the recruiting thing is a bit of a canard. It's more difficult to recruit to ND than, say, LSU, but we also have advantages that they and many others don't.
Kelly is a good football coach, but I admittedly was never his biggest fan. He is superb at program management, really good at player development (except QB development - strange considering that was his calling card coming from Cincinnati), good to quite good at identifying talent in assistant coaches, OK as a recruiter, and downright mediocre bordering on sub-par as a gameday coach, especially offensively.
It'll be interesting to see how this works. I suspect his floor will be pretty damn high given the structural advantages LSU has in the sport, but I have a hard time seeing him getting to the mountain top and beyond in the SEC West. We've gone 54 - 9 over the last five years, but dig a bit into that record, and you'll find that it's mostly been against a pretty soft schedule, at least at the top. Kelly's record against top 10 teams is not good.
More than anything, he'll need to figure out how to run an offense that doesn't get figured out in ten minutes and how to attract and develop a top tier QB. He's had some pretty elite defenses at ND - this year, 2020, 2018, 2012 - but never managed to figure it out on offense, which is incongruous with all the talent we've had on the OL, at TE, and occasionally at WR and RB.
3
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:20 pm to AbuTheMonkey
He’s already got the QB talent incoming for that last part. We’ll see if it develops
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:34 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Eh, the recruiting thing is a bit of a canard. It's more difficult to recruit to ND than, say, LSU, but we also have advantages that they and many others don't.
Kelly is a good football coach, but I admittedly was never his biggest fan. He is superb at program management, really good at player development (except QB development - strange considering that was his calling card coming from Cincinnati), good to quite good at identifying talent in assistant coaches, OK as a recruiter, and downright mediocre bordering on sub-par as a gameday coach, especially offensively.
It'll be interesting to see how this works. I suspect his floor will be pretty damn high given the structural advantages LSU has in the sport, but I have a hard time seeing him getting to the mountain top and beyond in the SEC West. We've gone 54 - 9 over the last five years, but dig a bit into that record, and you'll find that it's mostly been against a pretty soft schedule, at least at the top. Kelly's record against top 10 teams is not good.
More than anything, he'll need to figure out how to run an offense that doesn't get figured out in ten minutes and how to attract and develop a top tier QB. He's had some pretty elite defenses at ND - this year, 2020, 2018, 2012 - but never managed to figure it out on offense, which is incongruous with all the talent we've had on the OL, at TE, and occasionally at WR and RB.
Yeah, pretty much nailed it. I'd probably flip the descriptors you used for his ability as a gameday coach and as a recruiter, but I mostly agree. I also think he had some great assistant coach hires, but also some real duds there, too (Quinn, BVG, Lyght, arguably Rees [too young/inexperienced]). I'd call that... "inconsistent".
This post was edited on 11/29/21 at 9:36 pm
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:40 pm to Big Brain on Brad
ND would better off with Fickell. I think Kelly is tease coach. Kelly will give LSU a lot of 10 & 11 win seasons that end in playoff debacles.
He will however win the Biggest Ego Championship...
He will however win the Biggest Ego Championship...
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:42 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Eh, the recruiting thing is a bit of a canard. It's more difficult to recruit to ND than, say, LSU, but we also have advantages that they and many others don't.
Few schools with easier recruiting than LSU. Low academic standards at the only major program in the state, huge in state talent pool, and adjacent to SE Texas and the golden triangle. If you can’t get the horses to win at LSU, you’re a bum.
This post was edited on 11/29/21 at 9:44 pm
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:44 pm to Big Brain on Brad
ROLL OUT THE CHAMPIONSHIPS 
Posted on 11/29/21 at 9:50 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
Yeah, pretty much nailed it. I'd probably flip the descriptors you used for his ability as a gameday coach and as a recruiter, but I mostly agree. I also think he had some great assistant coach hires, but also some real duds there, too (Quinn, BVG, Lyght, arguably Rees [too young/inexperienced]). I'd call that... "inconsistent".
I'll give him credit and say he really did do a bit of soul-searching after 2016 and went fairly aggressively outside his inbred assistant network.
I peeked over at the coaching changes board to see what the LSU fans there are saying. Many seem to think he was operating at a massive talent deficit. Notre Dame started the year with the 5th-most players on NFL rosters this year (LSU was 3rd); we weren't rolling out a bunch of scrubs out there week after week, and Kelly was operating with a roster that was roughly comparable to Oklahoma or Michigan or Clemson (sans Lawrence), not Mississippi State.
They're going to get what they get: a well-run football program overall but with some maddening inconsistencies, especially offensively, and a tendency to tortoise a bit in games against equal or superior talent. I can't help but think Jimbo Fisher redux.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:20 pm to Big Brain on Brad
This is a very blah hire. Is it bad? No, but I feel no excitement at all.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:23 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
They're going to get what they get: a well-run football program overall but with some maddening inconsistencies, especially offensively, and a tendency to tortoise a bit in games against equal or superior talent. I can't help but think Jimbo Fisher redux.
I think that’s a fair criticism. He is going to have to nail the OC hire but I don’t think he will have an issue with that. At this point I’ll take stability and steady over what we had the past few years.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:25 pm to Big Brain on Brad
LSU hire> SC hire
I'll be reserved in my expectations but his list of available players he can recruit going forward will be yuge.
Everyone in the SEC just took notice.
I'll be reserved in my expectations but his list of available players he can recruit going forward will be yuge.
Everyone in the SEC just took notice.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:26 pm to AtlantaLSUfan
quote:
AtlantaLSUfan
Ok lol
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:28 pm to Metaloctopus
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Those were exceedingly underwhelming LSU teams with no QB, and incompetent head coaches.
Well. At least BK will fix all that.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:29 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Anyone who can't see that this is a fantastic hire and that Kelly is a great coach is a moron.
It’s astonishing reading the hate over this hire lol
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:34 pm to TackySweater
who tf did lsu fans think they were getting that was better than this
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:42 pm to 0
quote:
quote:
They're going to get what they get: a well-run football program overall but with some maddening inconsistencies, especially offensively, and a tendency to tortoise a bit in games against equal or superior talent. I can't help but think Jimbo Fisher redux.
I think that’s a fair criticism. He is going to have to nail the OC hire but I don’t think he will have an issue with that. At this point I’ll take stability and steady over what we had the past few years.
He needs to learn to trust his OC more than anything else. With the exception of perhaps Chip Long, whom Kelly eventually let go, Kelly has never hired an OC who wasn't an OC-in-name-only. He generally has eschewed going after the big fish (unlike on defense, where he went after Diaco, Elko, and Freeman, all highly coveted at the time) for the OC spot in favor of underlings who merely channel Kelly. He was / is pretty stubborn in designing his offense and had to be pried away after 2016 to hand the reigns off a bit (which has since reverted some).
QB development has been kind of shite under Kelly almost no matter who the OC or QBC were. At some point, you lay that on the head coach, particularly one who is as hands on in QB development and offensive architecture as Kelly is. You will need a tough kid at the QB spot who can handle him (like Rees and Book), because he chewed through at least 5 starting QB's who regressed under him who couldn't adapt to his style.
I would watch out for those two things, more than anything. He is not known as a particularly involved or hands-on recruiter, but I don't know how that will translate at LSU. You will almost certainly have really good or even great defenses given LSU's inherent advantages.
It'll be interesting to see how he evolves his offense. OL and TE are the only two spots where he will likely be at a disadvantage recruiting-wise at LSU vis a vis ND. He will also be facing much better defensive lines week in and week out than he is used to.
This post was edited on 11/29/21 at 10:45 pm
Posted on 11/29/21 at 10:53 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
who tf did lsu fans think they were getting that was better than this
Billy Napier or Lane Kiffin
This post was edited on 11/29/21 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 11/29/21 at 11:26 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
AbuTheMonkey
How did Kelly and ND handle the new NIL stuff this year?
Posted on 11/29/21 at 11:45 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
quote:
AbuTheMonkey
How did Kelly and ND handle the new NIL stuff this year?
Pretty well from what I could tell. ND has some unique competitive advantages there that might be tough to replicate at some other places other than maybe SC or Texas, though (namely, a sizable and influential alumni pool scattered throughout the entertainment industry). It’s less “let’s give this 5 star recruit a half million dollar contract to rep Billy’s Ford car dealership in Tuscaloosa” and more “we have access to platforms and to build unique content that few other schools can match, so let’s leverage that”.
One year is a small sample size, though, so who really knows yet.
Posted on 11/29/21 at 11:46 pm to Gaggle
quote:
The knock is he's kind of a prickly Yankee that's never been in the South.
Ed Orgeron was “one of us” and look how that ended up.
Posted on 11/30/21 at 12:37 am to The Third Leg
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Few schools with easier recruiting than LSU. Low academic standards at the only major program in the state
But Kelly has to compete with the low standards of Alabama.
LSU is #172
Alabama is #148
Auburn is #99
Very difficult to win in CFB and be ranked in the Top 25 academically. Notre Dame is #19.
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