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Started By
Message
re: Penn State NCAA Sanctions thread - announcement at 8 CST
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:25 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:25 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
RollTide1987
quote:They're anonymous for the same reason they didn't speak up. They're terrified of what the cult will do to them.
Can you name these people who still remain at Penn State or are they the anonymous people in the Freeh report who could have sued him for libel if his allegations against them weren't true?
quote:
volfan30
quote:There's too many of them. It's impossible to prove. Maybe they will be. I don't really know. What's your point?
Can you please tell me why everyone mentioned in the Freeh report has not been prosecuted if they are guilty as you have said?
1
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:25 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
Well in that case they should throw sanctions against the players on his team as well shouldn't they? You're arguing the same thing as we are with that example. Individual punishment.
Those players don't get to play for the coach that recruited them and 99% of the time will not receive a waiver to transfer and not lose eligibility because by the NCAA you play for the program and not the coach.
It's shitty but that's what you sign up for when you join a team or a program. Doesn't mean you don't fire the guy because there may be some collateral damage.
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:25 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
Srbtiger06
quote:
Clear cut violation. Fine them. What does that have to do with players though? Should they be punished for that one?
How would you suggest the NCAA punishes Penn State for what happened? I know you believe that they should only punish individuals. How would you suggest they do that?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:26 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
They've clearly never seen the Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil mentality of a program when they're breaking NCAA rules first hand either.
Where are all you people coming from with all this vast experience?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:27 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
Why not fine them?
I'm sure they will get a fine, but it sends the message that you can pay your problems to go away.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:27 pm to genro
quote:
It's impossible to prove.
So you believe the NCAA should punish a university based on something that is conjecture?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:28 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Look. If y'all are arguing against the way the NCAA works then I'm on your side. They go after the school too much and should really find a way to punish the coaches more.
That's exactly what I'm arguing. Fine the AD, the coaches, the admin...whoever. Why punish players for being innocent bystanders?
quote:
BUT...that isn't how they work.
Agreed, and it is bullshite.
quote:
So they shouldn't change the way they do things in this case.
They'd gain alot more respect from some if they did.
quote:
The football program and even higher ups were EXTREMELY corrupt. The football team should be punished.
"The football program" implies players, ALL coaches, ALL trainers, EVERYONE. That's a strong assumption and I would be willing to bet it is wrong. The major players in the case may be, but not everyone.
It seems like people want to punish the whole group because the NCAA can't effectively punish the bad guys.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:28 pm to Srbtiger06
quote:
No, they've punished other members for violating clear cut rules of paying players, point shaving, etc. "Morality clause" is open for interpretation
You have no idea what bylaw or principle they're going to cite. Once they issue their statement tomorrow I have no problem with a discussion on whether or not it was actually a violation. But the rest of this stuff about hammering thousands of innocent people and what not has no place in the discussion. It is simply a matter of whether or not Penn State violated NCAA bylaws/principles.
quote:
disagree with them punishing institutions rather than individuals regardless though
They only have control over institutions, and that is a different discussion. It goes back to the "cheating is ok as long as you fire the coach when you get caught" nonsense.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:28 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
How would you suggest the NCAA punishes Penn State for what happened? I know you believe that they should only punish individuals. How would you suggest they do that?
He wants them to make up new rules, which is essentially exactly opposite of the due process principled argument that he has been making for 40 pages in favor of the current players.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:29 pm to fightingtiger2335
quote:
Where are all you people coming from with all this vast experience?
I was an athletic trainer for a D-1 program, working with multiple sports including but not exclusive to football? My ex (who I was with for multiple years) worked in the same AD office? I still know people who work in other D-1 offices?
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:29 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
How would you suggest the NCAA punishes Penn State for what happened?
Fine the frick out of the university.
quote:
I know you believe that they should only punish individuals. How would you suggest they do that?
This might be a shocker but...they can't. End of story. They don't have that power so why do something just for the sake of doing something?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:30 pm to BluegrassBelle
was the program corrupt? You said we don't have experience with a corrupt program. If so...then 
if not...then you don't have the experience either.
I still don't think rubbing another guys nuts so he doesn't have to go pay for a happy ending means you were in the shite.
if not...then you don't have the experience either. I still don't think rubbing another guys nuts so he doesn't have to go pay for a happy ending means you were in the shite.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:31 pm to tigerpimpbot
quote:
He wants them to make up new rules, which is essentially exactly opposite of the due process principled argument that he has been making for 40 pages in favor of the current players.
PSU state broke a moral code. The NCAA can punish member institutions for moral infractions.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:31 pm to Srbtiger06
Ha it doesn't take EVERY member to really screw up a good thing. But when one of the guys is Joe Pa you have to take action.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:31 pm to volfan30
quote:
Can you please tell me why everyone mentioned in the Freeh report has not been prosecuted if they are guilty as you have said?
Because the NCAA doesn't have the authority to prosecute or charge anyone with a crime, maybe.....?
Crimes and NCAA violations are not the same thing. I assumed everyone knew this, but now I'm not so sure.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:32 pm to MOT
quote:
You have no idea what bylaw or principle they're going to cite. Once they issue their statement tomorrow I have no problem with a discussion on whether or not it was actually a violation.
Well I doubt they're getting them on recruiting violations. The general consensus is the ethics/morality clause or lack of institutional control. That's what is being discussed.
quote:
But the rest of this stuff about hammering thousands of innocent people and what not has no place in the discussion. It is simply a matter of whether or not Penn State violated NCAA bylaws/principles.
NOBODY is arguing that they violated some morality clause. The clause is entirely too open-ended to argue. The argument is whether or not punishing them is bullshite. Keep up.
quote:
They only have control over institutions, and that is a different discussion.
Again, that's the argument.
quote:
It goes back to the "cheating is ok as long as you fire the coach when you get caught" nonsense.
If you're that obtuse about it then yes, it does go back to that.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:32 pm to MOT
.
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:34 pm to volfan30
Buckner must not have read the Freeh report, eh genro?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:34 pm to Srbtiger06
Plus that isn't true anyways. There can be a football program without players. Obviously that would be pointless but it's true. Players sign to play at programs. It sucks...but the players at PSU chose the wrong program.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 3:34 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
I'm sure they will get a fine, but it sends the message that you can pay your problems to go away.
Yes, because as soon as they write the check everyone will forget. Punishing them based on any sort of ethics or morality clause sends the message that 'hey if we don't like what you're doing...frick you'. That grants too much power.
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