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SirWinston
LSU Fan
PDX
Member since Jul 2014
51868 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
4th and 15 is too easy. It should be 4th and 20 and no "automatic first down" penalties save for outright pass interference or personal fouls.
This post was edited on 5/21 at 5:46 pm


PEPE
Member since Jun 2018
8113 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
Between this and the "draft higher for hiring blacks" I say just leave the NFL closed forever.


mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
24112 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

4th and 15 is too easy. It should be 4th and 20 and no "automatic first down" penalties save for outright pass interference or personal fouls.


Which are a dime a dozen in the NFL these days.

Hopefully, the refs and league would treat this 4th and 15 desperate attempt as they do Hail Mary's and not flag people for breathing on the opponent.

It would have to be...fine, you want 4th and 15...go for it, but we're swallowing our whistles. Otherwise fans would just go apeshite over teams getting 1st downs over more bullshitee P.I.s. This potential rule just screams of rigging.
This post was edited on 5/21 at 6:23 pm


Tiguar
Auburn Fan
Alabama
Member since Mar 2012
28358 posts
 Online 

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

This proposal still sucks because of the power it will give refs.


I wouldn’t hate it if “automatic first down” penalties just meant they get another try and there were no 15 yard penalites


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HollierThanThou
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2012
5644 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
4th and 20, no first down via penalty.

15 yards isn’t enough, at least double the normal first down yardage.

Enforce penalties like they do near the goal line, 5 yards - half the distance to the goal depending on severity, but the goal is not awarded until earned.
This post was edited on 5/21 at 8:08 pm


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Mr. Hangover
Hawaii Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
31256 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
Wtf is this gay shit?


Might as well make it make em take em in the fourth quarter
This post was edited on 5/21 at 8:11 pm


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shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
76637 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

I mean, chuck it deep and draw a pass interference call. That seems like it would have a 50% success rate
50%?

Teams don't even convert 3rd and 5s at a 50% rate, I'd guess.


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Cocotheape
Atlanta United Fan
Member since Aug 2015
2711 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
I like this idea with a caveat:

You cannot get a first down via penalty. You get the penalty yardage, but it’s 4th and 15 again. Your benefit is of course, you get better and better field position. Down should be untimed, to prevent a Buddy Ryan Polish defense type approach.

Scoring a touchdown on this play would be incredibly exciting. The success percentages for 4th and 15s (in the area of 15%) are similar to onside kick success rates under the old rules. If you can’t get a first via penalty that rate would go down, with the field position improvement twist.


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tigernnola
LSU Fan
NOLA
Member since Sep 2016
2367 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
An on-sides kick is a play of desperation. Very few are ever successful, so this option makes more sense if you are the team trying to get back in the game. Not sure it is really fair for the team that has played well enough to have the lead, usually very late in the game. Have to vote No.


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Hazelnut
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since May 2011
15282 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
I feel like an easier fix to this problem would be to move back the return team a few yards on designated onside kick plays. That would give the kicking team a slightly better chance of recovering but not cause as much of a shite show as this new proposal.


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Member since 2001
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PEPE
Member since Jun 2018
8113 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

This potential rule just screams of rigging.


It will result in the refs affecting ht outcome A LOT more.

It's pretty hard for the refs to interfere with an onside kick (they managed in that OU vs Oregon game that one notable time) but for a normal 4th and 15 play there are going to be a gazillion flags that award possesion of the ball and result in the team trailing being given a free chance ot win.

I pray they leave kickoffs alone, but if they go through with this madness it's clear it needs to be a downless play, like how kickoffs and extra points currently are.


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TizzyT4theUofA
Alabama Fan
Biloxi,MS
Member since Jun 2016
4700 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
Never mind I misunderstood which 25 it would be from.
This post was edited on 5/22 at 12:40 pm


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Dr RC
Alabama A&M Fan
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
44174 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
It worked great in the AAF. I'm not so sure why so many think it's going to be so easy to get.


NOSA
Member since Jan 2004
7325 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

I'm not so sure why so many think it's going to be so easy to get.


I didn't check the validity myself, but someone's study said an onside kick conversion rate was higher than a 4th and 15 and it should really be 4th and 13 to be roughly equal.
This post was edited on 5/22 at 1:00 pm


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NOSA
Member since Jan 2004
7325 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

Between this and the "draft higher for hiring blacks" I say just leave the NFL closed forever.



Or don't be a baby about floated proposals that will never happen.


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jumbo
Mississippi St. Fan
Nashville
Member since Dec 2011
3674 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
If they don't adjust the kickoff rules to how they used to be so an onside kick actually has a chance of working, then yes, I am for something like this.

Maybe go 4th and 20 and something where you can't get the 1st down by penalty.

Also, need to move the starting spot to like the 35 instead.


wildtigercat93
Navy Fan
Member since Jul 2011
96981 posts
 Online 

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

Also, need to move the starting spot to like the 35 instead.


Nah there needs to be a real punishment for not getting the conversion


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OU812
LSU Fan
Chester, Virginia via West Monroe
Member since Apr 2004
11520 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
Rules changes...been happening since 1994 and ruining a once great league and game.


Dr RC
Alabama A&M Fan
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
44174 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
quote:

Rules changes...been happening since 1994 and ruining a once great league and game.




Yes, 1994 is the first time they had a major rule change.


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VerlanderBEAST
Michigan Fan
Member since Dec 2011
17650 posts

re: NFL owners to vote on rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative
Make it 4th and 20 from the 10 with no replay the down and no automatic 1st down penalties. Any yardage from "post snap" penalties is assessed after the change of possession.


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