re: NBA question: Better player Bird or Barkley

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Bird won NBA MVPs over Dr. j, Magic, Kareem AND Michael Jordan (Jordan entered the league in 1984 for christsakes) and Bird played until 1992. Both Bird and MJ won MVP their 4th year in the league.

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Their primes didn't overlap and don't act like they did. Bird's last MVP was 86, Jordan's 3rd year in the league.

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Jordan had plenty of time to win MVPs over Bird...and opportunities to beat him in the playoffs but he never could.

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He won multiple MVPs over Bird when they were both in the League. Seriously what are you even talking about

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Year one Larry Bird had Cedric Maxwell(finally coming into his own), Tiny Archibald(HoF), Dave Cowens(Hall of Fame), Chris Ford, and Pete Maravich.

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maravich played 26 games for the celtics in 79/80 and started four, he was broken down by then and lost his drive

cowens was burnt out by 1980 and retired the next year, but he played well with bird for one season

chris ford was a serviceable nba 2guard that avrgd 9ppg

bird made the difference in 78/79 and 79/80, the 78/79 Celtics were garbage

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That is pretty fricking even it seems to me

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I actually thought it was an outrageous question at first but I just posted the stats to have a baseline.

Then I was like damn. It actually is pretty even.

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That’s true, but he was there playing solid as a sixth man when they needed him most down the stretch of the season and into the playoffs.

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Pete was the 8/9 man on that team splitting time with Gerald Henderson. The 6th man was actually ML Carr or Rick Robey

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Again, I’m not saying Bird didn’t elevate his team, he’s in my top 10, clearly I think highly of him, but to say he would have found just as much success or even close to it if he didn’t land on a elite franchise like Boston is being disengenuous.

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Boston in 1979 was no longer an elite franchise before Bird. After winning in 75/76 they were 44-38 ECSF, 32-50 No Playoffs - 3rd Atlantic, 29-53 No Playoffs - 5th Atlantic.

Hondo retired, JoJo White got traded, Cowens was the coach it was a mess

even the Tiny Archibald trade was considered a reach, he was coming off of a torn achilles when Boston traded for him.

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Just like had MJ landed on a shite team that remains poorly run, there’s no way we are talking about unequivocal GOAT MJ with 6 rings and one of the most storybook careers. Cause circumstance really does play a big role in what the upper bounds are for a NBA player’s legacy.

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Jordan was drafted on a shite team that was poorly run. What changed was a nobody named Phil Jackson convinced a ball hog MJ to pass to his team mates and trust this old high post offense that an ancient Assistant Coach brought with him. Drafting Pippen/Grant/Armstrong etc doesnt matter as much if MJ is playing one on five every possession

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And Chuck definitely got dealt a raw hand in that regard. Not the worst ever, cause he came into the league getting to be mentored by two all timers, but by the time he got to be Birds age his first chip, those teams were a mess. Playing in the era of Jordan and the Jordan Bulls. There’s just no way.

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Barkley played with Dr J 3 years and Moses Malone 2 years. Then the team went to shite. Then they got pretty good again. What you may not be aware of was Barkley was a loose cannon and sort of un-coachable. So part of the struggle the 76ers had was trying to build a team around a guy that had a big mouth and kind of did whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. But he played really hard and was sort of an athletic freak and we like outspoken Barkley on TV so we kind of forget how much of a dick he was as a young player.

Bird talked a lot but he backed it up in a way that was positive for his team and put them in a place to win. Barkley talked a lot and he backed it up in a way that was best for HIM.

For example, there was a lot of talk about Barkley's terrible three point shooting. Instead of spending time working on it or shooting less threes, he leaned into it and started shooting threes as much as he could just to prove he could.

Bird would never do shite like that for his ego that would hurt the team

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And let’s talk a little about Barkley’s love of the deep ball. He shot 2020 3’s in his career. That’s more than Larry Bird or Michael Jordan or Warriors coach Steve Kerr ever took. Among players who have shot more than 2000 3-pointers in their career, Barkley is the worst shooter by far. He’s .043 below the next worst – Jerry Stackhouse.

Three-point attempts steadily rose during Barkley’s career. During his rookie year in 1984-1985 teams were shooting 3.1 a game. By ’93-’94 teams were shooting 9.9 a game. Barkley was already attempting 2.9 in ’92-’93 – two seasons before the 3-point line was moved closer to the hoop. In ’95-’96, when he took his career-high 3.9 per game, teams were up to 16.8 a game. Mind you, at no point was there ever a statistical advantage to Charles Barkley shooting those threes. Barkley helped show big guys that they too could shoot 3-pointers, even if they really couldn’t.

In the 1995 – 1996 season Barkley entered the post-All-Star portion of his career and the league backed away from 3’s as rules changed and the line was moved back. As his body broke down he still managed to shoot about 1 three a game. He made about one every five games.

Maybe the weirdest stat when it comes to Charles Barkley shooting 3’s is that he made 7-of-8 during the 1992 Olympics when he led the Dream Team in scoring. Perhaps that’s where he got it in his head that he could shoot 3’s. You’d have to ask Barkley, but odds are he doesn’t recall ever shooting any.
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Bird was one of the best basketball players of all time. He was a sharp shooter. Charles was the Round Mound of Rebound A great player but not on the level of Bird.

Barkley is tripping if he said that, he was just a better athlete than Larry Ice. Bird, was the much, much better player who was kinda like an understated Magic Johnson with his passing, and he was also an underrated defensive player. He could rebound and of course shoot the rock much better than a Barkley ever could dream off.

I believe it was Dan Patrick interview. He did ponder the question for awhile. I guess to get to that level an athlete has to have a belief in themselves, even after retirement. Their legacy is all that is left.

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Lol, they were a fluke from going to 7 games and outscored the Bulls overall in the series. Charles went 27, 13, 5.5 in the series.

You can say Bird without having to make dumb statements

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My recollection is Kevin Johnson playing poorly was the problem. Barkley killed and Majerle played well.

But those Bulls were really good. Jordan, Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong were a really strong core group of players. The Knicks team they beat in the Eastern finals was also pretty legit.

My recollection is Kevin Johnson playing poorly was the problem. Barkley killed and Majerle played well.
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Spot on. I watched every minute of that series. For every play KJ made that was good, the other two were out of control / selfish plays that cost em.
The Suns were good enough to win it all.