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Started By
Message
re: NBA Finals Record: MJ 24-10; LeBron 13-20
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:51 am to jimithing11
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:51 am to jimithing11
quote:In all of this rambling you still cant refute the explanation that the Warriors are far better than the Cavs, which is the only point at hand
You can't bullshite your way out of this one sorry
The narrative earlier in the season was how LeBron had among the more talented teams, and way more talented than the previous Cavs team, with a few No. 1 picks, LeBron's choices as bench players and Kevin Love
Yet now of a sudden there is this grasping of straws with this absurd narrative that Cleveland blows
You and everyone else is so caught up in this that you're repeadtedly mention this without realizing you're proving my point that the East is weak as frick. How else would LeBron and this "shite roster" be able to make the finals if they are so bad as you say they are?
0
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:52 am to jimithing11
A few number 1 picks, LeBron and Kyrie make a few?
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:53 am to lsupride87
quote:
Not sure if you noticed but Love isnt playing. So bringing him up when discussing the Warriors vs Cavs makes zero freaking sense
For some reason half this board continues to cite Kevin Love when evaluating this Cavs playoff roster. It literally makes no sense.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 9:56 am to lsupride87
Well...Miami won 38 games because they lost Bosh for the season along with half their bench, and had an injured Wade...so yeah.
Same with the Cavs the year Lebron left. They lost 75% of their roster the next season and had a new coach...of course they would suck
Same with the Cavs the year Lebron left. They lost 75% of their roster the next season and had a new coach...of course they would suck
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 9:56 am
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:03 am to lsupride87
quote:
Serious question without a flame. How many times was MJs supporting cast considered worse than the other superstars supporting cast? Please answer without getting mad. For Lebron I would say he has played 4 finals with a worse cast and 2 with better
You could make an argument that the teams Jordan played against had as good as supporting cast around a star as Jordan did.
For example, if you say Malone=Jordan, then you have Stockton/Pippen as the primary "supporting" cast. Then Jordan had Rodman but Hornacek
Additionally, Barkley=Jordan, then you have Stockton/KJ as the primary support. I would argue the 93 Suns had the best makeup to beat the bulls of the teams they played with Ainge, Thunder Dan and Dumas (all 5 starters averaged double figures with 4 averaging 15+)
Overall I would say Jordan's cast was for sure better against the Blazers and likely the Jazz (so that's 3), but I would argue the Suns had the best team, the Sonics were very close if not better (Kemp, the Glove, Hawkins, Schremph and Perkins), and the Lakers I honestly don't remember that far
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:07 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
For some reason half this board continues to cite Kevin Love when evaluating this Cavs playoff roster. It literally makes no sense.
He was injured during the playoffs
I'm not one to say you count Love today as he is on the team, but he did play some playoff minutes this year.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:07 am to Buckeye06
quote:I'm at work, maybe someone can link it. I think it's from FiveThirtyEight, they quantified each Finals team from like the 90s on and how good each supporting cast was.
You could make an argument that the teams Jordan played against had as good as supporting cast around a star as Jordan did
MJ had top 5-10 casts, though not sure where the others you mentioned are.
Lebron 2007 and 2015 are bottom tier, maybe bottom 10, and the Miami days were mid to above tier, if I recall.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:08 am to Buckeye06
quote:He hasn't played since the 1st round, which was just a formality.
He was injured during the playoffs
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:11 am to shel311
quote:I gotcha covered. Where this Year's Cavs Supporting Cast Ranks
I'm at work, maybe someone can link it. I think it's from FiveThirtyEight, they quantified each Finals team from like the 90s on and how good each supporting cast was.
3rd worst supporting cast (marginally better than 07 Cavs).
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:12 am to Buckeye06
quote:The Bulls clinched the series with MJ playing like dog shite. The sonics could even compare to that Bulls team
the Sonics were very close if not better
According to 538 the 96 bulls were the best ever supporting cast. 96 Sonics were third though
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 10:17 am
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:21 am to lsupride87
So to answer my earlier question:
It appears Lebron has played 2 finals with a better supporting cast and 4 with worse
It appears MJ played 4 finals with a better cast and only 2 with worse
Interesting
LINK
It appears Lebron has played 2 finals with a better supporting cast and 4 with worse
It appears MJ played 4 finals with a better cast and only 2 with worse
Interesting
LINK
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 10:25 am
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:22 am to lsupride87
quote:
According to 538 the 96 bulls were the best ever supporting cast. 96 Sonics were third though
The Suns supporting cast was WAY better than Jordans, but Jordan>Barkley (20+ spots better), the Sonics were very close, 97/98 were Bulls advantages, 1991 was advantage Lakers, 92 was advantage Bulls but very close (within 5 spots)
So 4/2 in favor of Jordan, but 2 of the ones in favor of Jordan were close
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:33 am to Ghetto Pimp
Have a down vote plug.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 10:40 am to Buckeye06
quote:
I'm not one to say you count Love today as he is on the team, but he did play some playoff minutes this year.
He went out in the first round.
I wouldn't count DRose in the 2012 bulls playoff roster.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 11:03 am to JohnnyKilroy
yeah i mean let's play this game
if love/kyrie were healthy but lebron got hurt and couldn't play, would anybody shite on love/kyrie for not winning?
if love/kyrie were healthy but lebron got hurt and couldn't play, would anybody shite on love/kyrie for not winning?
Posted on 6/5/15 at 12:08 pm to Ghetto Pimp
quote:
stats can be skewed bruh
MJ played on some of the greatest teams ever, even without MJ
Shhh... He's not supposed to know that the Bulls team when Jordan retired still made the conference semi-finals and lost in 7 games.
Whereas the Cavs went from the best record in the league to the second worst once LeBron left. Must mean nothing. Then Lebron goes back to the Cavs and takes them from 9th worst team to an NBA Finals.
Yup, Jordan had it so hard compared to Lebron teammate-wise.
Posted on 6/5/15 at 12:12 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Shhh... He's not supposed to know that the Bulls team when Jordan retired still made the conference semi-finals and lost in 7 games.
Whereas the Cavs went from the best record in the league to the second worst once LeBron left. Must mean nothing. Then Lebron goes back to the Cavs and takes them from 9th worst team to an NBA Finals.
Yup, Jordan had it so hard compared to Lebron teammate-wise
I'll play this game. If you take the Cavs 2014 without LBJ I see no reason they aren't in the conference semi-finals. Irving/Love are good enough in the East to win a lot of games. I know we don't have "evidence" like we do for the Bulls without MJ but it isn't a stretch to say an Irving/Love team would be competitive with everyone in the East. I would say they would be right around equal to the Wizards
Posted on 6/5/15 at 12:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
keep grasping
You're getting close
not really
You're getting close
not really
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 6/5/15 at 12:30 pm to Buckeye06
quote:They were something like 2-8 or 2-10 without LeBron. They wouldn't have been that bad because they all improved. That being said, they were much worse without LeBron.
I'll play this game. If you take the Cavs 2014 without LBJ I see no reason they aren't in the conference semi-finals. Irving/Love are good enough in the East to win a lot of games. I know we don't have "evidence" like we do for the Bulls without MJ but it isn't a stretch to say an Irving/Love team would be competitive with everyone in the East. I would say they would be right around equal to the Wizards
This post was edited on 6/5/15 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 6/5/15 at 12:32 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
I know we don't have "evidence"
The fanboys will never let you speculate
They are the only ones allowed to speculate. LeBron is the chosen one and he's the only reason Cleveland and/or Miami have ever been relevant.
He even helped Miami win a title in 2006 when he was in Cleveland!!
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