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re: Michael Jordan’s 1988 DPOY might have been fraudulent
Posted on 6/23/24 at 12:22 am to PP7 for heisman
Posted on 6/23/24 at 12:22 am to PP7 for heisman
1- it’s factually untrue which is why you can’t provide proof of it and you’re conflating multiple rosters using Rodman as an excuse when they played together for less than a quarter of Jordan’s career.
2- sure he got calls at the end of his career but he was hammered and beaten up most of his career.
3- again, no proof of this, it’s just contrived nonsense people like you seem to keep inventing. When you currently have a league where walking doesn’t really exist you can’t critique any other era or player.
Look you didn’t witness his career, you’re spouting off a bunch of shite people who did know is false, you can’t prove anything you’re saying. I’d be willing to bet the only game you might have seen him play was his last. This is what you modern Onlyfans do, you can’t exceed what was previously done so you try and tear down or erase these things you can’t surpass.
2- sure he got calls at the end of his career but he was hammered and beaten up most of his career.
3- again, no proof of this, it’s just contrived nonsense people like you seem to keep inventing. When you currently have a league where walking doesn’t really exist you can’t critique any other era or player.
Look you didn’t witness his career, you’re spouting off a bunch of shite people who did know is false, you can’t prove anything you’re saying. I’d be willing to bet the only game you might have seen him play was his last. This is what you modern Onlyfans do, you can’t exceed what was previously done so you try and tear down or erase these things you can’t surpass.
This post was edited on 6/23/24 at 12:29 am
1
Posted on 6/23/24 at 12:39 am to Madking
quote:My "proof" is he played with two of the greatest defenders in NBA history for three of his titles and one of the graetest defenders in NBA history for three of his titles. Jordan was a great defender, but he wasn't guarding the opposing team's best player for 40 minutes. I'm not going to sit down and go box score by box score, but you and I both know that didn't happen.
1- it’s factually untrue which is why you can’t provide proof of it and you’re conflating multiple rosters using Rodman as an excuse when they played together for less than a quarter of Jordan’s career.
quote:You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of. You're using memory and guess work when I can sit here and show you actual statistics and video to prove my point.
2- sure he got calls at the end of his career but he was hammered and beaten up most of his career.
quote:What are you talking about? One youtube search will show you multiple uncalled carries, walks, and push offs. I'm not saying you can't critique modern basketball? You're making up arguments in your head.
3- again, no proof of this, it’s just contrived nonsense people like you seem to keep inventing. When you currently have a league where walking doesn’t really exist you can’t critique any other era or player.
quote:While I'm younger than you, I watched Michael Jordan play in person. I can also go on the internet and watch hundreds of his games, the same way I can watch Lebron James or Kobe Bryant or Shaq or Steph Curry or Zion. Just because you saw more of something live does not mean you know more about that thing. If anything, it distorts your view of that thing. That's the problem with 99% of Jordan/Lebron debates.
Look you didn’t witness his career, you’re spouting off a bunch of shite people who did know is false, you can’t prove anything you’re saying. I’d be willing to bet the only game you’ve ever seen him play was his last.
quote:You're doing the exact same thing, but tearing down modern players
This is what you modern Onlyfans do, you can’t exceed what was previously done so you try and tear down or erase these things you can’t surpass.
Modern fans like myself can appreciate the greatness of past eras, while also acknowledging that modern basketball has more overall talent, more complex offensive and defensive schemes, and more statistical data than any point in history that shows us how good players actually are. I can, at the same time, acknowledge that there are aspects of today's game that are brutal to watch (foul baiting, flopping).
Posted on 6/23/24 at 12:50 am to PP7 for heisman
So that’s not proof it’s misrepresented circumstances and factually untrue. Again besides being factually false you’re using a player he played with for 3 years and acting like it was his entire career while also giving him no credit for beating that player. When you say we’re doing the same thing you’re canceling your argument. You’re using this “double standard” as an attack while I’m simply pointing out that it exists. The burden of proof is yours. You’re also using anecdotal nonsense to incorrectly paint an entire career and you’re making factually incorrect statements that again you can’t provide any proof of. As far as you watching him you didn’t and sure you can go watch his games on YouTube but you don’t so that comment is pointless. And finally the biggest tell that outs your bias is your descriptions of eras since it’s simply parroted talking points that aren’t actually true.
This post was edited on 6/23/24 at 12:58 am
Posted on 6/23/24 at 1:04 am to PP7 for heisman
“Just because you saw more of something live does not mean you know more about that thing.”
I don’t know more about it because I’ve watched it longer but I have been involved in the sport for over 30 years and you just watch it on TV. And BTW just because people watched previous eras doesn’t mean they stop seeing the sport the same way so this idea that your mind creates a line where you start to distort reality based on who’s playing is just a bunch of rubbish.
I don’t know more about it because I’ve watched it longer but I have been involved in the sport for over 30 years and you just watch it on TV. And BTW just because people watched previous eras doesn’t mean they stop seeing the sport the same way so this idea that your mind creates a line where you start to distort reality based on who’s playing is just a bunch of rubbish.
This post was edited on 6/23/24 at 1:09 am
Posted on 6/23/24 at 1:16 am to PP7 for heisman
quote:
Michael Jordan was not guarding the best player on the opposing team (who were for the most part less talented than today's players) 40 minutes a night. He had two of the best defensive players of all time on his team who would help with that.
Sure, if the team’s best player was a PF or C like Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Olajuwon, or Robinson, then yeah Jordan wasn’t guarding their best player every night. But I also never said he was, so I’m not sure what your point is.
quote:
His colleagues routinely joked that you couldn't get close to Mike or it was a foul. He got more calls than any player in his era. quote
And he yet he only led the league in FTAs once so where is your data supporting that claim?
quote:
Come on lol Jordan carries rival today's hesitation carries.
Lol no.
quote:
The NBA literally encouraged teams/scorekeepers to pad Michael Jordan (and other stars of that era) stats to paint a better picture of who they were as players.
Lol no.
Adam Silver - you know the guy who runs the nba - is on record saying that wants officials to let stars score more points and fill up box scores to help make nba fantasy sports more popular.
Posted on 6/23/24 at 1:23 am to Dairy Sanders
These narratives are so silly. Of course MJ guarded other teams best perimeter players. The only reason this narrative exists is because during their first title series Pippen was matched up with Magic after game 1. From that point on Pippen started guarding bigger perimeter players even if they were the best player and kind of solidified himself as an A+ defender. Oh and BTW Rodman wasn’t even there at this time.
This post was edited on 6/23/24 at 1:31 am
Posted on 6/23/24 at 5:06 am to PP7 for heisman
quote:
My "proof" is he played with two of the greatest defenders in NBA history for three of his titles and one of the graetest defenders in NBA history for three of his titles. Jordan was a great defender, but he wasn't guarding the opposing team's best player for 40 minutes. I'm not going to sit down and go box score by box score, but you and I both know that didn't happen.
You don’t need to go box score by box score, you can just focus on the year being discussed in this thread —87/88 Jordan’s DPOY. Pippen was only getting 20 minutes a game in his rookie season and Rodman is a bad boy piston. Was Sam Vincent constantly guarding the other teams best guard?
This post was edited on 6/23/24 at 5:41 am
Posted on 6/23/24 at 5:35 am to PP7 for heisman
quote:
Athletes today are bigger, stronger, faster, and quicker than ever before.
Lol
Posted on 6/23/24 at 1:53 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
MJ is most likely a top 3 player all time.
This here should make everyone anywhere doubt the validity of anything you have ever said or will say in the future.
Its that bad.
And worse.
Posted on 6/23/24 at 2:06 pm to DownSouthCrawfish
quote:
more privileged than the guy that had rules created for him
Are you referring to the name of a book, The Jordan Rules?
By your post history, I realize you are a special class of window licker, but realize, that is not a reference to an actual NBA rule, but rather a set of rules the best defensive team in the NBA (The Pistons) at the time enacted to try to contain Jordan. In other words, the best team in the league and the most physical team in decades literally had to change their entire defensive approach in order to defend against the dude.
Posted on 6/24/24 at 8:35 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
But damn it’s hard to sift through the bullshite fantasy that was concocted to lift him up plus he had the Phil Jackson system + Scottie + best rebounded/defender in the league + 6th man of the year + they were very good without MJ.
MJ was a prolific scorer and elite defended under Doug Collins.
MJ had an entire 3 peat before Kukoc and Rodman came on board.
Rodman was not the best defender in the league when he played with Michael.
If you look at something like Defensive Win Shares Mj was almost always 1st on the bulls. Tied for first or second.
Posted on 6/24/24 at 9:50 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Rodman was not the best defender in the league
Yeah…ok
Posted on 6/24/24 at 10:01 am to theunknownknight
oh ok.
I guess Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Dikembe Mutumbo didn’t exist.
I guess Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Dikembe Mutumbo didn’t exist.
Posted on 6/24/24 at 4:41 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I guess Hakeem Olajuwon and Dikembe Mutumbo didn’t exist.
These two existed in 1988 and apparently weren't better defenders in 1988 either. Can't have it both ways.
Posted on 6/24/24 at 5:02 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
guess Hakeem Olajuwon and Dikembe Mutumbo didn’t exist. These two existed in 1988 and apparently weren't better defenders in 1988 either. Can't have it both ways.
Oof. Take a lap and then hit the showers.
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