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Message
re: Mahomes is the GOAT
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:20 am to NawlinsTiger9
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:20 am to NawlinsTiger9
Mahomes is a much better runner and has a stronger arm.
0
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:29 am to cubsfan5150
A lot of people would disagree with you here.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:33 am to McMillan
Wilt Chamberlain changed the game.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:41 am to NawlinsTiger9
I guess unless a QB wins a SB then they don't belong in the conversation?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:50 am to supatigah
If Dan Marino was surrounded as much talent as the QBs of today then he would be the GOAT.
He said on TV recently that if he played today where the rules favored WRs and QBs then he would have some 6,000 yard passing seasons.
He said on TV recently that if he played today where the rules favored WRs and QBs then he would have some 6,000 yard passing seasons.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:57 am to WHATDOINO
quote:
Just like Brady can thank the defense for over half of his superbowl wins. You guys are insane. It is a team game
It is. Which is kinda why I brought up the most important player in KC THIS year. I didn’t mention Brady. Jones had an absolutely dominant year and wrecked multiple O lines throughout the postseason. To act like the chiefs defense didn’t carry them at multiple points this year is ignorant at best.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:57 am to supatigah
quote:
QB is the most important position on the team, you have to include championships as a major factor in the GOAT QB discussion.
Dan Marino may be the most talented QB to ever play the position l, yet he has zero rings.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:02 pm to supatigah
quote:
QB is the most important position on the team, you have to include championships as a major factor in the GOAT QB discussion.
So how do we factor things like the Chief's OL all getting injured prior to the SB against Tampa Bay or Dee Ford jumping offsides to give the Pats life in the AFCCG? You can probably do similar things for Brady, Manning, etc.
quote:
people forget brady got sacked 5 times in the 2007 SB but the Pats took the lead 14-10 with 2:42 left in the game. The giants scored with 30 seconds left.
They'll never forget the INT at the goaline against SEA, though, which was 100% all Brady
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:05 pm to RB10
quote:
yet he has zero rings.
Which should have very little to do with the “GOAT” qb discussion.
Was Emmitt better than Barry because he won three SBs? Nope.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:07 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
Which should have very little to do with the “GOAT” qb discussion.
Which was my point. You can include titles, but using them as the ultimate measuring stick in football is ignorant.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:09 pm to RB10
quote:
You can include titles, but using them as the ultimate measuring stick in football is ignorant.
100%
It makes more sense for, say, basketball, and even then, it's silly.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:12 pm to CarolinaGamecock99
I have a few thoughts here. I think you have to rank them where they stand currently. If mahommes career were to end today I dont think you could say hes the best of all time. He definitely is heading there but still needs a couple more rings to get brady imo.
I also think this could be broken down by three categories.
Passing Ability, Raw Athleticism, and Leadership.
in my mind it's a three man race (im 29 so I dont feel l can be a fair judge of the marino's and montana's of the world because i never watched them); Brady, P. Manning, and Mahommes
Ranking by category Id probably go
Passing ability
Manning
Mahommes
Brady
Mahommes and Brady may be interchangeable
Leadership
Brady
Mahommes
Manning
Raw Athleticism
Mahommes
Brady
Manning
I think Mahommes has passed manning but the gap in superbowl rings is keeping him from brady (not his fault obviously). I think if he gets 2 more to get to 5 id feel comfortable in putting him as the undisputed GOAT. Brady getting the one with the Bucs I think really helped add some padding to his case.
I also think this could be broken down by three categories.
Passing Ability, Raw Athleticism, and Leadership.
in my mind it's a three man race (im 29 so I dont feel l can be a fair judge of the marino's and montana's of the world because i never watched them); Brady, P. Manning, and Mahommes
Ranking by category Id probably go
Passing ability
Manning
Mahommes
Brady
Mahommes and Brady may be interchangeable
Leadership
Brady
Mahommes
Manning
Raw Athleticism
Mahommes
Brady
Manning
I think Mahommes has passed manning but the gap in superbowl rings is keeping him from brady (not his fault obviously). I think if he gets 2 more to get to 5 id feel comfortable in putting him as the undisputed GOAT. Brady getting the one with the Bucs I think really helped add some padding to his case.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:32 pm to Pedro
Bruh you barely watch Brady and Manning ??
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:33 pm to RB10
quote:
Which was my point. You can include titles, but using them as the ultimate measuring stick in football is ignorant.
I said titles should be a major factor because it should in my opinion
it is not the only factor
some of you need to figure out what you are actually arguing
QB play overall GOAT
QB Winners GOAT
QB Passers GOAT
to make a claim about the greatest anything you are trying to differentiate one candidate from another
Brady has one thing that only Otto Graham can contest, 7 Championships
ok, team wins. Brady has 5 Super Bowl MVPs
ok, still team accomplishment I guess?
he won 3 MVPs and came out 2nd five times
2 AP Offensive POTY
15 Pro Bowls
3 NFL All Pro QB
ok stats then - 23 seasons total
he didnt play as a rookie
he didnt play in 2008
#1 in total yardage by 9000 yards over 21 seasons actually played
#1 in passing TDs by 78 - based on his career averages #2 Brees would have had to play 39 more games to TIE Brady
#1 in passes completed by 611 - based on his career average - #2 Brees would have had to play 25 more games to TIE brady
#1 in passes attempted by 1499 - #2 brees would have had to play 41 more games to TIE brady
ok, so he was a long career stats compiler, Isnt longevity and maintaining peak performance a plus in rating the GOAT?
at age 43, Brady had 401/610 for 4633yds 40 TDs 12 INTs and 65.7%
at age 44, Brady had 485/719 for 5316yds 43 TDs 12 INTs and 67.5%
at age 45, Brady had 490/733 for 4694yds 25 TDs 9 INTs and 66.8%
so winning, base QB stats, longevity
what else is there?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So how do we factor things like the Chief's OL all getting injured prior to the SB against Tampa Bay or Dee Ford jumping offsides to give the Pats life in the AFCCG
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:43 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Answer me this. Who is better, Lebron or MJ?
If you say Lebron, we are done here. Your opinions are no longer valid
Jordan didn't just carry the Bulls on his own, but its also WAY easier for one player to shoulder most of the load in basketball.
A prime Jordan could go to the Pistons right now and get them to the playoffs.
Colts record the year before they drafted Peyton: 3-13
The year after? 3-13. And everyone here could agree he is at least a top 5 QB ever or at least right on the fringe of it.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:44 pm to Pedro
quote:
I have a few thoughts here. I think you have to rank them where they stand currently. If mahommes career were to end today I dont think you could say hes the best of all time. He definitely is heading there but still needs a couple more rings to get brady imo.
I also think this could be broken down by three categories.
Passing Ability, Raw Athleticism, and Leadership.
in my mind it's a three man race (im 29 so I dont feel l can be a fair judge of the marino's and montana's of the world because i never watched them); Brady, P. Manning, and Mahommes
Ranking by category Id probably go
Passing ability
Manning
Mahommes
Brady
Mahommes and Brady may be interchangeable
Leadership
Brady
Mahommes
Manning
Raw Athleticism
Mahommes
Brady
Manning
I think Mahommes has passed manning but the gap in superbowl rings is keeping him from brady (not his fault obviously). I think if he gets 2 more to get to 5 id feel comfortable in putting him as the undisputed GOAT. Brady getting the one with the Bucs I think really helped add some padding to his case.
in your world does 4 time NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP Aaron Rodgers not exist?
Mahomes may be the best QB in the league right now, but is he the Greatest QB in the League right now? that might be Aaron Rodgers right? or does Mahomes having two more SB wins than Rodgers put him over the top?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:47 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
So how do we factor things like the Chief's OL all getting injured prior to the SB against Tampa Bay or Dee Ford jumping offsides to give the Pats life in the AFCCG
that kind of what if BS goes to infinity, there is no end to the hypotheticals and that is a cheap argument for a lawyer
all we have is what happened to go by, everything else is up to interpretation and speculation which is meaningless
I am blown away at the recency bias in this thread, some in this thread seem to believe the NFL began in 2010 or some shite
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:48 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Longevity stats and team stats
There are plenty of metrics to see that Mahomes is superior, including your eyeballs.
Kelce is very good, but his career went from "maybe a HOFer" to "sure-fire HOFer" after Mahomes took over as the starter in KC.
Other than Kelce, Mahomes has now won 2 super bowls with some pretty mediocre if not bad weapons to throw to. Rashee Rice I don't think is anything spectacular. Justin Watson was his WR2 this year and I don't think he makes some rosters on a few teams. MVS and Kadarius Toney washed out with other teams. Mecole Hardman was traded back to the Chiefs this year for pennies. Isiah Pacheco is just a beneficiary of the system hes in and runs like he wants a concussion more than anything else in life.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:50 pm to supatigah
quote:
so winning, base QB stats, longevity what else is there?
Brady has the title right now, but Mahomes is on pace to either match or blow past everything Brady has accomplished if he plays 10 more seasons.
Even if he only plays 5 more, it’s going to be a debate because Mahomes is accomplishing things that Brady did, and doing it in a shorter timeframe.
He has 3 titles, 3 Super Bowl MVPs, and 2 MVPs and has plays <33% of the games that Brady did.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 1:53 pm
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