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re: Let's do a vote. Death Penalty for Penn State?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:04 am to SabiDojo
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:04 am to SabiDojo
quote:
You are focusing too much on the liability of precise actors, but you are failing to see that the problems at PSU are systemic. The culture at PSU has to change, and I don't think that the culture can change if they are allowed to continue participating in collegiate athletics, at least not right now.
Are people who had nothing to do with the cover up suddenly going to stop having "school spirit"?
Are people who had nothing to do with the cover up going to not idolize Bill O'Brien if he does all the good things that Joe Paterno did?
Are fanatics going to cease to exist because you stopped playing football for a year?
A sorry attempt at changing the culture isn't worth potentially ruining a 100 football players college careers. It isn't worth 1000 lost jobs.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 12:07 am
2
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:04 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Les Miles could assassinate the president on the 50 yard line during the Alabama game and our fan base would try to succeed from the union at the notion of the death penalty came about for it.
You don't want to open up this can of worms. If Les Miles had been planning this clearly and deliberately for 20 years...absolutely. There are so many variables to consider here that its a difficult analogy to make, especially since its hypothetical.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:05 am to dawgfan24348
Its a criminal thing now, let it stay in the courts.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:07 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
A sorry attempt at changing the culture isn't worth potentially ruining a 100 football players college careers
Again, playing college football with a scholarship is a privilege not a right. I'm sure there is a way they can honor the scholarships and give them all the advantages Penn St. has to offer outside of football. You are of the mindset that football is actually important, when in reality its just a game. People's lives were ruined at ages as young as 8 years old...they may never have a normal day in their life.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 12:08 am
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:09 am to Interception
quote:
I'm interested in knowing the collateral damage you speak of too?
Well here's their mindset: Sure it's evil as frick what our defensive coordinator is doing to these kids, but could you imagine what would happen to our institution if this got out, especially our "holier than thou" image f our university. Think of all the good our football program is and how sacred it is for our community. If we turn Jerry over to the authorities, all of that will be basically destroyed, so for the benefit of our university and program, let's turn a blind eye to this to ensure the continuation of our great program. It's a greater evil to destroy this program and the thousands that support it over the lives of a few dozen kids."
That's exactly what it's saying and this mindset needs to be wiped from the face of this university. It is utilitarianism at its worst and most fricked up. It's the very definition of collateral damage for the preservation of a supposed greater entity.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:10 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Well here's their mindset
Who is "their" ?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:12 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Are people who had nothing to do with the cover up suddenly going to stop having "school spirit"?
What?
quote:
Are people who had nothing to do with the cover up going to not idolize Bill O'Brien if he does all the good things that Joe Paterno did?
The death penalty will definitely change how they view success in football.
quote:
Are fanatics going to cease to exist because you stopped playing football for a year?
The powers at PSU were not fanatics drinking too much beer with painted chests. These were educated men who DELIBERATELY allowed these atrocities to happen.
quote:
A sorry attempt at changing the culture isn't worth potentially ruining a 100 football players college careers. It isn't worth 1000 lost jobs.
You are making the same mistake PSU made. You are only thinking about the university and the people inside of it.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:13 am to PowerTool
quote:
2. Many of those innocent fans and current students RIOTED when their fricking football coach got fired, damaging property in the process. You don't think those overgrown children need a strong wake-up call to get their damned priorities in order?
#1 - they thought it was a witch hunt and that Paterno was a scapegoat. They were obviously mistaken.
#2 - This illustrates my earlier point. If the stupidity of students is to be used as a gauge on whether a team should be punished, then this is a horrible slippery slope. What about the Alabama fan who sexually assault that LSU fan? Does that make Alabama more likely to be punished?
The NCAA is not meant to punish personal behavior. It's meant to be an attempt to maintain the competitive balance of the sport.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:17 am to bbrownso
quote:
#2 - This illustrates my earlier point. If the stupidity of students is to be used as a gauge on whether a team should be punished, then this is a horrible slippery slope. What about the Alabama fan who sexually assault that LSU fan? Does that make Alabama more likely to be punished?
What on Earth are you talking about? Did the Alabama fan sexually assault a child and UA cover it up? No. The two situations are not even REMOTELY comparable.
quote:
The NCAA is not meant to punish personal behavior.
They do it all the time! If, however, you meant to say that the NCAA compliance rules say nothing about this type of noncompliance (failing to comply by reporting the abuse), then that is a topic for another day. Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:21 am to tiggerthetooth
quote:
You are of the mindset that football is actually important, when in reality its just a game.
It is a game and to make it that far requires years of dedication and hard work. To take that away(along with 1000 jobs) in a hope that fanaticism will cease to exist is just plain stupid.
quote:
People's lives were ruined at ages as young as 8 years old...they may never have a normal day in their life.
Novel idea, why don't we focus on punishing the people that actually contributed to their lives being ruined?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:22 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Who is "their" ?
The Penn State culture. They proved this when they overturned a news van and have yet to destroy his statue. That legacy is more important to them than anything, and that mindset has to be removed. It's just a fricking game and it's not more important than innocent boy's lives.
You are being intentionally obtuse.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:23 am to dawgfan24348
thumb down
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:26 am to SabiDojo
quote:
The powers at PSU were not fanatics drinking too much beer with painted chests. These were educated men who DELIBERATELY allowed these atrocities to happen.
So punish the powers at PSU who DELIBERATELY allowed these atrocities to happen. Not people who had nothing to do with it.
quote:
The death penalty will definitely change how they view success in football.
If Penn State wins a MNC again Bill O'Brien will be every bit as idolized as Paterno.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:27 am to bbrownso
quote:
This illustrates my earlier point. If the stupidity of students is to be used as a gauge on whether a team should be punished, then this is a horrible slippery slope. What about the Alabama fan who sexually assault that LSU fan? Does that make Alabama more likely to be punished?
I picked that as an example of how the culture there expanded beyond the handful of administrators who have been named. We're not talking about one fan getting tanked up and doing one embarrassing thing; we're talking about systemic frickedupness.
And I already said I don't think it should be the NCAA but Pennsylvania officials who order a 2 year break from football.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 12:29 am
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:32 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The Penn State culture.
They proved this when they overturned a news van and have yet to destroy his statue. That legacy is more important to them than anything, and that mindset has to be removed. It's just a fricking game and it's not more important than innocent boy's lives.
"The Penn State culture" and "mindset" you speak of is no different than any other group of fans. They are fanatics and giving Penn State the death penalty in the hope that its going to make people stop being fanatics is not worth the negative effects it has on people who did nothing wrong.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 12:35 am
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:34 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
The Penn State culture" and "mindset" you speak of is no different than any other group of fans
Right. That's why all those FSU kids rioted when Bowden was forced out.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:40 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
If Penn State wins a MNC again Bill O'Brien will be every bit as idolized as Paterno.
bullshite. Do you really think Mike DuBose is as idolized as the Bear?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:40 am to OMLandshark
To fan the flames of anger I present some whack job's song
Joe Paterno tribute song on Youtube
Joe Paterno tribute song on Youtube
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:41 am to PowerTool
quote:
Right. That's why all those FSU kids rioted when Bowden was forced out.
You think PSU fans would of rioted if Paterno was forced out because they weren't winning? They rioted because they thought he was a scapegoat. Terrible comparison.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 12:44 am
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:43 am to OMLandshark
quote:
bullshite. Do you really think Mike DuBose is as idolized as the Bear?
I don't even know who Mike Dubose is but if Bill O'Brien were to win a MNC overcoming these circumstances yes he would be every bit as idolized as Joe Paterno.
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