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Message
re: Kollman: Justin Herbert is Mitch Trubisky, but cranked up to 11
Posted on 4/16/20 at 3:36 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 4/16/20 at 3:36 pm to H-Town Tiger
All your points are terrible. Mahomas is the only qb out of a ton of qbs to come out of texas tech that did well. Stanford doesnt run a high power offense, so a great qb coming out of there number 1 probably has a very high football iq coming out of a pro style offense.
Al davis fell in love with Jamarcus’ physical skills which is what he always did. I do not think Jamarcus goes number 1 overall if it were most other teams picking #1.
Al davis fell in love with Jamarcus’ physical skills which is what he always did. I do not think Jamarcus goes number 1 overall if it were most other teams picking #1.
This post was edited on 4/16/20 at 4:29 pm
3
Posted on 4/16/20 at 7:10 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Palm Beach Tiger
You have terrible reading comprehension skills.
Posted on 4/16/20 at 7:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
He’d look really cool if he grew his hair long like Tom Brady did for those couple of years.
This post was edited on 4/16/20 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 4/16/20 at 8:13 pm to theducks
WTF. No one was even talking to you. Doubt seriously you even know which post I was replying to.
This post was edited on 4/16/20 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 4/16/20 at 9:15 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
Posted on 4/16/20 at 11:22 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Al davis fell in love with Jamarcus’ physical skills which is what he always did. I do not think Jamarcus goes number 1 overall if it were most other teams picking #1.
This is some massive revisionist history.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 12:16 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
All your points are terrible
You think how guys that played at the same school as Herbert 20 years ago did in the NFL means he will fail and you are saying my points are terrible?
Why not just say Herbert won't do well because no QB with the first name Justin is in the Hall of Fame That's just as relevant to Herbert NFL career as to how guys from his school did.
quote:
Mahomas is the only qb out of a ton of qbs to come out of texas tech that did wel
THAT'S THE POINT dumbass What other guys did or didn't do coming from the same school/system/coach/conference is irrelevant to another player
quote:
Stanford doesnt run a high power offense,
But they play the same defenses as Oregon which was one of your "reasons" for why Oregon QB's fail. Cal also plays those D's and Rodgers was another won that was going to flop because of the system/coach "Jeff Tedford QBs flop"
As for the high powered offense what did Mahomes run in college? How about Drew Brees? Oh and Joe Burrow? and my points are terrible
quote:
Al davis fell in love with Jamarcus’ physical skills which is what he always did. I do not think Jamarcus goes number 1 overall if it were most other teams picking #1.
Then you don't know what your are talking about. After his pro day work outs, scouts/draft analysts were calling it the most impressive workout they had ever seen. There was no head scratching or controversy about them making a reach when the Raiders took him, he was the #1 prospect on everyone's board.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 12:35 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Drew Brees has made it to the playoffs a few years running with this strategy
Posted on 4/17/20 at 1:17 am to H-Town Tiger
Oregon has run similar offense for 20 years. Akili smith, AJ feely, , joey Harrington, kellon clemons, Dennis Dixon, and Marcus Marriota have all been drafted out of that high powered offense to not do much in the NFL. 3 of those guys drafted top 3. What I am saying is it is hard to get a read on how good a qb from that system really is, obviously based on those factual results so I would be Leary of drafting a qb from there with one of my top 5 picks when a guy like Tua is out there.
Mahomas is the only one out of a ton of guys. Obviously meaning he is an outlier. Texas tech qbs are the biggest example of system QBs in college football. As good as he was he went #10 because of it, meaning GMs were Leary because of where he was doing what he was doing. Wonder why he fell to 10? He was a stud. No question. Dumbass.
Cal and Stanford are damn near Ivey league schools. Those QBs have high football IQ. So when you have a guy that is awesome coming out of there is a good chance they are bringing a ton of intangibles along with football talent. Again neither of the schools are offensive juggernauts usually, so honestly do not see why you cant understand this.
Look, I sure as heck do not want to bash on Jamarcus. At the time I thought he would be awesome too. But most teams would have drafted Calvin Johnson #1 imo as Jamarcus was not even close to being #1 just a few months earlier before LSU played Notre Dame. Kiffin even says he begged Al to take Calvin Johnson.
It was midnight the night before the draft. I said, ‘We’re going to pay this guy $63 million and he’s not ready for it.’ I said I wouldn’t be ready for it at 21. He’s not ready for that and hasn’t played very much…Calvin Johnson was there. I said, Calvin Johnson is the best receiver I’ve ever seen, ever, work out in my life. This guy is going to be one of the best ever.
Every outlet had Jamarcus projected number one because they thought Al Davis would draft him
Mahomas is the only one out of a ton of guys. Obviously meaning he is an outlier. Texas tech qbs are the biggest example of system QBs in college football. As good as he was he went #10 because of it, meaning GMs were Leary because of where he was doing what he was doing. Wonder why he fell to 10? He was a stud. No question. Dumbass.
Cal and Stanford are damn near Ivey league schools. Those QBs have high football IQ. So when you have a guy that is awesome coming out of there is a good chance they are bringing a ton of intangibles along with football talent. Again neither of the schools are offensive juggernauts usually, so honestly do not see why you cant understand this.
Look, I sure as heck do not want to bash on Jamarcus. At the time I thought he would be awesome too. But most teams would have drafted Calvin Johnson #1 imo as Jamarcus was not even close to being #1 just a few months earlier before LSU played Notre Dame. Kiffin even says he begged Al to take Calvin Johnson.
It was midnight the night before the draft. I said, ‘We’re going to pay this guy $63 million and he’s not ready for it.’ I said I wouldn’t be ready for it at 21. He’s not ready for that and hasn’t played very much…Calvin Johnson was there. I said, Calvin Johnson is the best receiver I’ve ever seen, ever, work out in my life. This guy is going to be one of the best ever.
Every outlet had Jamarcus projected number one because they thought Al Davis would draft him
Posted on 4/17/20 at 3:52 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Oregon has run similar offense for 20 years. Akili smith, AJ feely, , joey Harrington, kellon clemons, Dennis Dixon, and Marcus Marriota have all been drafted out of that high powered offense to not do much in the NFL. 3 of those guys drafted top 3. What I am saying is it is hard to get a read on how good a qb from that system really is
Not quite. Joey Harrington ran a traditional west coast offense under Jeff Tedford. Kellen Clemons, the perennial backup he was, actually ran the much maligned Andy Ludwig screen heavy offense. It wasn’t until his last year in 2005 that Oregon started tinkering with a spread offense under Gary Crowton, which was fairly successful. Once Crowton left, Oregon brought on Chip Kelly who utilized a more run focused spread option. The offense was remarkably consistent from Dennis Dixon to Darron Thomas to Marcus Mariota through Justin Herberts first four games his freshman season. But even then, under both Helfrich and Kelly the offense would vary from season to season based on personnel and the strengths of the players, unlike the Texas tech/Mike leach Air Raid offense.
The vast majority of Herbert’s career has been in a more RPO-pistol oriented offense, with more elements of pro style offenses favored by Cristobal.
TL;DR there is no Oregon System that spans two decades of players that connects players like Akili Smith to Herbert. Herbert may succeed or he may fail, but the degree of the hostility towards Herbert is bizarre
This post was edited on 4/17/20 at 4:11 am
Posted on 4/17/20 at 8:27 am to Rep520
quote:
I don't think he's a guarantee, but it's not as bad as a lot here are making it out to be. He's never had more than 8 picks in a season as a 4 year starter. He clearly has the tools, and I think some of his failings are overblown.
I think the Trubisky comparison is bad because of Herbert’s experience. Even the best scouts have a high miss rate when projecting QBs. College starts and passes attempted are some of the better predictors, and shouldn’t be ignored when making comparisons or projecting success.
Herbert is going to be much better prepared entering the league than Trubisky. Some question his leadership and attitude. Maybe they’re right, and he doesn’t have the intangibles, but he managed to have a long and successful college career.
He took over as a starter, and was one of the few bright spots during Oregon’s worst season in 30 years. They improved every year during his career. He’s experienced coaching changes, handling disappointments, criticisms, and success. He’s dealt with a revolving door of teammates each season as experienced players graduate, and a new crop of Freshmen enter the locker room. Each one has a different personality, background, skill set, and level of development.
Maybe he hasn’t handled it well, but the on field results seem to indicate otherwise. He does have plenty of experience as a starting QB at a major program. Maybe he’s learned some leadership traits along the way.
He’ll once again start his career at the next level on a bad team and be the starter at some point. He’ll be the least experienced guy at the most important position. He might not have what it takes to be successful, but at least he’s been in a similar situation before.
quote:
As a soph, he had a 67.5 completion % with 9.6 YPA. He was 66.8 and 8.1 this year, with the 8.1 probably a result of more screens.
I’d be more concerned about highlighting a single stat from his Sophomore season, when he missed a month during their most difficult stretch of the schedule. The criticism over his development during his career has merit. The same mistakes, inconsistencies, and bad tendencies still occur too often.
Posted on 4/17/20 at 9:19 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Mahomas is the only one out of a ton of guys. Obviously meaning he is an outlier. Texas tech qbs are the biggest example of system QBs in college football. As good as he was he went #10 because of it, meaning GMs were Leary because of where he was doing what he was doing. Wonder why he fell to 10? He was a stud. No question. Dumbass.
You are still completely missing the point. A lot of people said Mahomes would be a bust because he was a"system" QB because he went to TT. Look at all the other TT QBs they said. No Big XII QB has won a SB was another common comment. They have big stats because they play shitty defenses blah blah blah. And they have been proven spectacular wrong because none of that matters. What matter's is the INDIVIDUAL player. His physical skills, his football IQ, his work ethic etc. THAT'S what matters and that's what Mahomes had.
And you do realize 10th is still in the first round right? No one said to be a good QB prospect you have to go #1. Most of the other TT QB's either went undrafted or like 6th-7th round. Looking back at the 17 draft only 1 QB went ahead of him and many people had questions about Trubisky. 5 teams that picked before 10 had young QBs/weren't in the market.
quote:
Cal and Stanford are damn near Ivey league schools.
They still play in the Pac 10/12. you said "Oregon plays crap defenses", Cal and Stanford play the same defenses regardless of the type of offense they run.
Anyway the point about Cal was more about Jeff Tedford, Cal's head coach when Rodgers played there. People said Rodgers would fail because he was a "system" QB with Tedford. Several QB's that played for Tedford when he was and OC/QB Coach were drafted high and basically bombed out including are you ready for this : Akili Smith and Joey Harrington
That's right the OC from Oregon from 1998-2001 went on to be HC at Cal, yet somehow in 2003 and 2004 didn't run the same offense according to you quote:
Again neither of the schools are offensive juggernauts usually, so honestly do not see why you cant understand this.
Because it's irrelevant for starters. Several QB's in the NFL ran "high powered offenses' in college and are doing just fine. Oregon under Kelly and Helfrich wasn't running the same offense as they ran with Bellotti and other OC's. I'm pretty sure Belotti brought in Kelly, to install Kelly's Offense, the Oregon posters would know better but that is not the same as the offense they are running now. Teams do change their offensive philosophy with different coaches (see LSU)
quote:
But most teams would have drafted Calvin Johnson #1Every outlet had Jamarcus projected number one because they thought Al Davis would draft him
At worst JR goes #2 but you are flat our wrong that Al and the Raiders are the only team that liked him #1. Mike Mayock Ironically the current Raiders GM said his pro day was the best workout he'd ever seen. McShay and Kiper said similar things. Gruden loved him iirc I'm sure some coaches GMs had reservations that happens all the time.
quote:
Jamarcus was not even close to being #1 just a few months earlier
Neither was Burrow so there are similarities beyond just the school they both went to
This post was edited on 4/17/20 at 1:10 pm
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