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re: It's going to be sad watching OKC break up in a year or so
Posted on 6/4/12 at 8:58 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/4/12 at 8:58 am to SlowFlowPro
I agree. They have to keep their big 3. Maybe there is someone in the draft coming out that can replace Ibaka and/or Perkins so they dont have to pay them? They cant lose westbrook or durant, Harden is essentially another starter who is very valuable to that team.
2
Posted on 6/4/12 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
You guys are undervaluing the growing offense of Ibaka. He is now in his 6th year of playing organized basketball. His offense has improved every seen. If he can develop any sort of post game, then it's a no-brainer in the Ibaka or Harden debate.
As SFP said, there are scoring, driving 2's out there that won't be a big drop off from Harden. I don't think there is an equal to Ibaka at 4 in the enti league. And he's still raw by most people's judgements. Sky is limit for him.
As SFP said, there are scoring, driving 2's out there that won't be a big drop off from Harden. I don't think there is an equal to Ibaka at 4 in the enti league. And he's still raw by most people's judgements. Sky is limit for him.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 10:09 am to alfredblueforheisman
quote:
I agree. They have to keep their big 3. Maybe there is someone in the draft coming out that can replace Ibaka and/or Perkins so they dont have to pay them? They cant lose westbrook or durant, Harden is essentially another starter who is very valuable to that team.
The 3 guys I know within the organization seem to be hearing that Ibaka is viewed as irreplaceable over Harden. Plus, Harden could potentially draw more in a trade than Ibaka. Much easier to draft another Harden than another Ibaka.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 10:15 am to alfredblueforheisman
quote:
Maybe there is someone in the draft coming out that can replace Ibaka
there's few, if any, in the league that can replace Ibaka.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 10:24 am to hashtag
quote:
the Durant / Westbrook discussion is a tough one. Westbrook is hyper aggressive on the offensive end of the court and Durant is hyper passive (overall, I know that this changes occasionally).
IMO, the only reason that Durant needs Westbrook on this team is because Durant can be so freakin' passive on offense some times. He "needs" the aggressiveness of Westbrook to create shots for the team and put Durant in a better position to score.
That being said, he may be more aggressive if the offense ran through him instead of Westbrook. Who knows?
What I do know is that it is absolutely ridiculous that Westbrook has more shot attempts in the playoffs than Durant (even if it is only by 3) when Durant is averaging 5 more minutes a game.
westbrook
17/45 in 2 losses (38%) 33.5 minutes/game
7/25 in 2 wins (28%) 38.75 minutes/game
durant
18/36 in 2 losses (50%) 40.75 minutes/game
21/37 in 2 wins (57%) 42.25 minutes/game
Durant needs to be shooting 25x a game and Westbrook needs to be shooting more like 10-15.
How do you figure Westbrook has more shot attempts?
Posted on 6/4/12 at 11:37 am to Toula
quote:
there's few, if any, in the league that can replace Ibaka.
This x 1000
Not trying to be a dick but guy's like Ibaka don't grow on trees. Very rare find. He had 100 more blocked shots than the next closet shot blocker. Harden would be a tough loss but the potential return on picks, the chance to sign a vet SG (Jamaal Crawford, Stephen Jackson, etc.), and the growing offensive prowess of Ibaka (Game 4 WCF ring a bell?) make this really a no-brainer when comparing Ibaka vs. Harden.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 11:49 am to okietiger
quote:
The 3 guys I know within the organization seem to be hearing that Ibaka is viewed as irreplaceable over Harden. Plus, Harden could potentially draw more in a trade than Ibaka. Much easier to draft another Harden than another Ibaka.
Obviously I grossly undervalued Ibaka's worth. Excellent point about Harden's trade value. The NBA is a business, and it's all about value.
What would Harden's value be? Would he fit in NO?
Posted on 6/4/12 at 11:54 am to alfredblueforheisman
Harden is the second coming of Ginobli. NBA.com had him listed as the 3rd best SG already behind the likes of Kobe, and DWade. Someone will vastly overpay for him most likely. As for fits, I honestly haven't even though about it.
Buyer beware though: Harden has historically not been as good on the road as he is at home. Maybe he can grow out of this in a starting role but that remains to be seen.
Buyer beware though: Harden has historically not been as good on the road as he is at home. Maybe he can grow out of this in a starting role but that remains to be seen.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 11:56 am to alfredblueforheisman
quote:
What would Harden's value be? Would he fit in NO?
Harden would be able to fit on any team, but I can see some team offering him close to if not a max contract when the time comes. He can flat out score the ball and will be rewarded for it soon.
As for the Hornets, he's gonna cost more than I think we would pay. Also if he does leave OKC, it will be for a starting role.
This post was edited on 6/4/12 at 11:59 am
Posted on 6/4/12 at 11:57 am to alfredblueforheisman
If they trade Harden there is going to be a long line of teams interested and the price will be high. Young players and picks, don't see what the Hornets having enough if they're holding onto EG and Davis.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:02 pm to floridatigah
Can't imagine the Thunder not going after a seasoned scoring SG if they were to deal Harden.
Be crazy if he ended up at San Antonio.
Be crazy if he ended up at San Antonio.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:04 pm to okietiger
Real question is are they gonna try and trade Harden or just let him walk when someone offers him a huge contract?
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:17 pm to WB504
LOTS of variables in that discussion. Do they make the Finals this year? Win it?
Where will they be at the trade deadline next year in terms of team health, record, etc.?
Presti is off the charts smart so I cannot imagine them letting him walk unless they look like far and away the favorites next year. But they very well could be. Will be very interesting.
No matter what, it's a good position for the Thunder to be in, not a bad one. They will most likely come out the winners no matter what.
Where will they be at the trade deadline next year in terms of team health, record, etc.?
Presti is off the charts smart so I cannot imagine them letting him walk unless they look like far and away the favorites next year. But they very well could be. Will be very interesting.
No matter what, it's a good position for the Thunder to be in, not a bad one. They will most likely come out the winners no matter what.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:19 pm to okietiger
the whole issue is salary, in my mind
if they deal him they'll have to take some back
there is a # they can get to consistently (and none of us can even speculate what this # is) and a # they can get to here or there. hell, if their owner is OK with losing 8 figures, they can get up to $75M or so
if they deal him they'll have to take some back
there is a # they can get to consistently (and none of us can even speculate what this # is) and a # they can get to here or there. hell, if their owner is OK with losing 8 figures, they can get up to $75M or so
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:25 pm to okietiger
I could see it playing it many different ways:
1) Trade Harden (more likely) or Ibaka this offseason. Not easy to do if they win the championship or get very close. But you can get the most value at this point and start building for the future while still competing.
2) Trade one at the deadline next year. Potentially damaging to team and fan morale, especially if the Thunder are rolling next year and it's viewed as a cost-saving move. Who knows what the market will be like at that point too.
3) Go for it this year and next and be prepared to let Harden walk when he gets near a max offer next offseason.
4) Match any offer to Harden. Some OKC fan said the owner cares about championships more than paying the luxury tax, but this scenario will have the Thunder at a Lakers-type payroll in a year or two.
4b) Could go for it these next two years, match the Harden offer, pay the luxury tax for one year and deal Harden once the CBA rules allow you to.
1) Trade Harden (more likely) or Ibaka this offseason. Not easy to do if they win the championship or get very close. But you can get the most value at this point and start building for the future while still competing.
2) Trade one at the deadline next year. Potentially damaging to team and fan morale, especially if the Thunder are rolling next year and it's viewed as a cost-saving move. Who knows what the market will be like at that point too.
3) Go for it this year and next and be prepared to let Harden walk when he gets near a max offer next offseason.
4) Match any offer to Harden. Some OKC fan said the owner cares about championships more than paying the luxury tax, but this scenario will have the Thunder at a Lakers-type payroll in a year or two.
4b) Could go for it these next two years, match the Harden offer, pay the luxury tax for one year and deal Harden once the CBA rules allow you to.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
Well no one knows for sure about Aubrey McClendon but he truly is a mad dog billionaire. Not afraid to take crazy gambles and he's beyond loaded in a state with one of the lowest costs of living in the entire US. If there ever was any owner that wouldn't give a shite to lose money to keep a team intact it would be him.
But as you said, who knows for sure?
But as you said, who knows for sure?
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:28 pm to okietiger
there are 2 types of owners who truly don't care how much they lose
1. russian billionaires
2. arab shieks
he may be an outlier
1. russian billionaires
2. arab shieks
he may be an outlier
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:28 pm to floridatigah
Honestly, I if I am the GM (ha), I would attempt to trade Harden in the offseason for someone like Kevin Martin (11 mil a year contract, basically what discounted Harden contract would look like) and Houston's 1st round pick. Then sign Ibaka for the most economical long term deal they can get.
Only pain would be losing Harden's demeanor since he is a fan favorite. I swear more people like him than Durant or Westbrook cuz of the damn beard.
Only pain would be losing Harden's demeanor since he is a fan favorite. I swear more people like him than Durant or Westbrook cuz of the damn beard.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:34 pm to okietiger
quote:
Honestly, I if I am the GM (ha), I would attempt to trade Harden in the offseason for someone like Kevin Martin (11 mil a year contract, basically what discounted Harden contract would look like) and Houston's 1st round pick.
It probably is the best move to trade him this offseason but you can get a much better deal than that. Martin turns 30 this year, will make almost 13 million, and then be a FA at the end of the year. I would try to do something like to the Blazers for Wesley Matthews and the 6th pick, maybe a little more too.
Posted on 6/4/12 at 12:36 pm to okietiger
It will be interesting to see which route they go depending on the outcome this year. I mean if you win this year you have to keep the team together, but if you lose say to the Spurs, then you have some decisions to make soon.
As for Ibaka, if I'm his agent I reject any extension from OKC that doesn't get 10 mil+ a year. DeAndre Jordan just got 43 mil/4yrs from Clippers so they would have to start there.
As for Ibaka, if I'm his agent I reject any extension from OKC that doesn't get 10 mil+ a year. DeAndre Jordan just got 43 mil/4yrs from Clippers so they would have to start there.
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