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How much do championships matter
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:20 pm
Championships are often considered the measuring stick in sports - are they really? Obviously the goal for every team in every sport year-in and year-out is to win the championship. But at the end of the day, in the grand scheme of things, do championships really matter all that much?
The Tampa Bay Bucs have more super bowl wins than the Chicago Bears and LA Rams. I would definitely consider both of those franchises far superior to the Bucs. The Saints have as many SB titles as the Bears and just one less appearance.
The New York Giants beating the Pats in SB 42. Everyone knows the Pats were better and prob win that game 9/10 times. And it’s not like everyone always says, “you only remember who won the championship.” Everyone remembers the Pats were better and considers that team one of the GOATs; not the 2007 NY Giants.
The Saints had the best record in the NFL over the last few seasons of Brees career but no SB appearance since 2009. Similar to Packers with none since 2010. On the other hand, the Eagles won the SB in 2017. Although that Eagles team was good, I’d take the Saints and Packers far more seriously than the Eagles despite their random title.
Ohio State and Oklahoma could argue a case to be more or just as successful programs as LSU over the last 18 years despite having 3 and 2 championships less, respectively, than LSU in that same span. Auburn has more championships than Oklahoma this century but I’d probably be happier to be an OU fan and in the hunt all year every year than what Auburn gets to enjoy during the Fall.
Just a few examples. I know I’m probably gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this but it’s just interesting when you think about it from that perspective. Also, from a fan’s perspective, is a random title a la 2017 Philadelphia Eagles or 2010 Auburn more fun than year in and year out consistency and being in the mix all season every season a la Ohio State football?
The Tampa Bay Bucs have more super bowl wins than the Chicago Bears and LA Rams. I would definitely consider both of those franchises far superior to the Bucs. The Saints have as many SB titles as the Bears and just one less appearance.
The New York Giants beating the Pats in SB 42. Everyone knows the Pats were better and prob win that game 9/10 times. And it’s not like everyone always says, “you only remember who won the championship.” Everyone remembers the Pats were better and considers that team one of the GOATs; not the 2007 NY Giants.
The Saints had the best record in the NFL over the last few seasons of Brees career but no SB appearance since 2009. Similar to Packers with none since 2010. On the other hand, the Eagles won the SB in 2017. Although that Eagles team was good, I’d take the Saints and Packers far more seriously than the Eagles despite their random title.
Ohio State and Oklahoma could argue a case to be more or just as successful programs as LSU over the last 18 years despite having 3 and 2 championships less, respectively, than LSU in that same span. Auburn has more championships than Oklahoma this century but I’d probably be happier to be an OU fan and in the hunt all year every year than what Auburn gets to enjoy during the Fall.
Just a few examples. I know I’m probably gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this but it’s just interesting when you think about it from that perspective. Also, from a fan’s perspective, is a random title a la 2017 Philadelphia Eagles or 2010 Auburn more fun than year in and year out consistency and being in the mix all season every season a la Ohio State football?
21
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:23 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
I measure greatness for players based on roughly these criteria:
Rings / Championships 30%
Eye Test 20%
Stats 20%
Awards 15%
Other 15%
It's a little different for a franchise/program but still sort of in the same vein, maybe you'd shuffle it up a tiny bit
This is just MY opinion as I don't think there's a way to truly objectively measure it, which is why most people go to championships I think
Rings / Championships 30%
Eye Test 20%
Stats 20%
Awards 15%
Other 15%
It's a little different for a franchise/program but still sort of in the same vein, maybe you'd shuffle it up a tiny bit
This is just MY opinion as I don't think there's a way to truly objectively measure it, which is why most people go to championships I think
This post was edited on 1/21/22 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:25 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
Honestly being an Oklahoma fan in the playoff era kinda seems like a pain in the arse. Sure they keep winning the conference but that does little to wash away getting that arse spanked in the Playoffs every time and never making it out of the Semis
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:27 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
The 2007 Patriots are not considered the greatest football team of all time, and have a huge caveat on any top 10 list they are on. If they win that SB, I don't think there's any dispute they are considered the greatest NFL team of all time.
Championships matter.
Championships matter.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:28 pm to Glorious
quote:
Honestly being an Oklahoma fan in the playoff era kinda seems like a pain in the arse. Sure they keep winning the conference but that does little to wash away getting that arse spanked in the Playoffs every time and never making it out of the Semis
Know what you’re saying but I’d still find it more enjoyable to know I’ll be watching my team in a game that matters all year long, thank know we’re eliminated by October 1st and have to reminisce and hang my hat on our school’s 2010 championship.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:38 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
I measure greatness for players based on roughly these criteria:
Rings / Championships 30%
Eye Test 20%
Stats 20%
Awards 15%
Other 15%
This is pretty ridiculous
Having championships as your top stat is pretty damn dumb. I'm guessing Robert Horry is a top 10 player all time for you huh. I mean he's won 7 championships right... So he MUST have had a heavy influence on all of them. Or... did he just kinda luck into being on a ton of good teams?
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:39 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
I mean… as a fan I’d rather see consistent success than one title and not even another appearance in the big game until 20,30,40+ years down the line. Why subject to the misery of being like a Lions fan? Just that one moment where you win it all followed by absolute suck the rest of your living years?
Sport is entertainment for fans. Not a lot of fun with a whole lotta losing where you aren’t even flirting with playoffs and chips.
As a measure for athlete greatness? Definition probably changes.
Sport is entertainment for fans. Not a lot of fun with a whole lotta losing where you aren’t even flirting with playoffs and chips.
As a measure for athlete greatness? Definition probably changes.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:44 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
For judging teams - yes of course
For judging players - matter much less. I am ok with using titles as a sort of tie breaker when 2 players resumes are very close, otherwise no.
For judging players - matter much less. I am ok with using titles as a sort of tie breaker when 2 players resumes are very close, otherwise no.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:44 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
Championships absolutely matter.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 12:49 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
It’s certainly over blown in our sports culture because we love certain narratives that the “winners” are the best and “win when it matters” we don’t process marginal differences or probability we’ll at all. We’ve also been marketed the championship over all because it’s good drama/TV.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 1:04 pm to H-Town Tiger
Titles obviously matter, but the ever expanding playoffs make it more and more likely for mediocre teams to win championships and great teams to not win them. That being the case, I think you have to take a lot more in account when measuring a team or player.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 1:47 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
They absolutely matter, but I think a lot of great teams are lost to history simply because they lost their last game.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:00 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
I think they matter a good bit, but obviously not the ONLY thing that matters.
I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team that's always in it but has never won. That's tough. I feel like most fans would take a few bad seasons for one championship season in a heartbeat.
Ohio State has won two titles since 2000, so obviously they're a better pick than Auburn... but I'd take Auburn and their few mediocre seasons lately over a team like Oregon that has been consistently good (only missed a bowl twice since 1997) but never won it all.
ETA: That might not be the best example... but trying to think of a team that has been good but hasn't won a championship in recent history, and now that Georgia has Oregon is one of the obvious picks.
I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team that's always in it but has never won. That's tough. I feel like most fans would take a few bad seasons for one championship season in a heartbeat.
quote:
Also, from a fan’s perspective, is a random title a la 2017 Philadelphia Eagles or 2010 Auburn more fun than year in and year out consistency and being in the mix all season every season a la Ohio State football?
Ohio State has won two titles since 2000, so obviously they're a better pick than Auburn... but I'd take Auburn and their few mediocre seasons lately over a team like Oregon that has been consistently good (only missed a bowl twice since 1997) but never won it all.
ETA: That might not be the best example... but trying to think of a team that has been good but hasn't won a championship in recent history, and now that Georgia has Oregon is one of the obvious picks.
This post was edited on 1/21/22 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:03 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
For some strange reason I've always been a big proponent of winning division championships first then worrying about conference/overall after, especially in baseball since it's such a grind and the games against division opponents can make or break a season.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:05 pm to Glorious
But auburn and LSU have had bama blocking them for a decade now
What is ou’s excuse
Can’t get past sec teams in the playoffs
LSU would have much more playoff appearances coming out of big 12
What is ou’s excuse
Can’t get past sec teams in the playoffs
LSU would have much more playoff appearances coming out of big 12
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:11 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
quote:
Ohio State could argue a case to be more or just as successful programs as LSU over the last 18 years despite having championships less
I'm going to need to see your math on this one.
Did you purposely only go back 18 seasons because on the 19th season Ohio State won the championship?
This post was edited on 1/21/22 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:14 pm to nicholastiger
You could make an argument that if LSU, Arkansas, Ole miss, or Mississippi state played in the big 12 since 2008, that each would have made either a bcs or cfp appearance. For LSU you would probably add about 2 or 3 more appearances than they have actually had and probably win in 2011 against bama because Saban would not have the film of the game already played to make adjustments. Of course they probably beat an undefeated Arkansas team in the title game that year and bama would be left at the door if Arkansas was in the big 12 that season instead of SEC.
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:17 pm to Horsemeat
quote:
For some strange reason I've always been a big proponent of winning division championships first then worrying about conference/overall after, especially in baseball since it's such a grind and the games against division opponents can make or break a season.
it's all degrees of perspective. I may never get to see the Rangers win the world series, but no one can ever take away the sheer joy and elation and watching them win back to back pennants
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:20 pm to FunkyFreshFranklin
This post was edited on 8/22/22 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 1/21/22 at 2:21 pm to VABuckeye
DP
This post was edited on 1/21/22 at 2:30 pm
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