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Started By
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re: How long is Paul Skenes arm going to hold up?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:12 am to jmcwhrter
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:12 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
Throwing 100mph fastballs is less damaging to an arm than a pitcher that throws more sliders than anything else
I always thought that too, which works in Skenes favor, but that's not actually what a whole lot of articles out there say. I googled. A lot of articles say a lot depends on velocity and usage. There's not consistent research either way, but a lot of the recent stuff says velocity and usage.
0
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:13 am to Lester Earl
Sure. it Cole pitched for 11 years without UCL issues.
Strider is freakish but he’s also 6’ probably pushing his physical limits. He seems like a big Gym/Lab guy and he’s had UCL issues before.
Not that Paul Skenes isn’t a big GYM/Lab guy but he also probably would throw harder than Strider naturally.
Strider is freakish but he’s also 6’ probably pushing his physical limits. He seems like a big Gym/Lab guy and he’s had UCL issues before.
Not that Paul Skenes isn’t a big GYM/Lab guy but he also probably would throw harder than Strider naturally.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:25 am to SammyTiger
Tyler Glasnow is built like an NBA power forward and athletic as hell and has had TJ and countless shoulder injuries. If it was as simple as this then teams/doctors would have stemmed the tide of these injuries already
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:34 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
Throwing 100mph fastballs is less damaging to an arm than a pitcher that throws more sliders than anything else
no its not. we have elbow valgus stress studies showing you are wrong
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:38 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
frame absolutely matters. but weight to height coefficient is also the number 1 thing that helps velo
chin up strength aka deceleration from the lat is a much bigger indicator of ability to withstand the rigors of throwing that kind of velo. throwing when the muscles around the ucl are fatigue is also huge risk factor.
read these articles by dr heenan
LINK
LINK
chin up strength aka deceleration from the lat is a much bigger indicator of ability to withstand the rigors of throwing that kind of velo. throwing when the muscles around the ucl are fatigue is also huge risk factor.
read these articles by dr heenan
LINK
LINK
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:50 am to lsu777
Lester said
I have to believe him. Dude was an athlete
quote:
Frame really doesn’t matter
I have to believe him. Dude was an athlete
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:01 pm to Jones
quote:
I have to believe him. Dude was an athlete
yea he be wrong folks. one of, if not the, leading indicator of velo is momentum potential. aka weight to height coeffecient
and look at the guys that are getting hurt a lot, not just a 1 off. all throw hard but are skinny af.
its the number 1 thing for velo but also one of the biggest things that allow you to stay healthy.
this is up to about 2.75-3 times height in inches. after about 3, dont really see a big performance improvement or injury reduction after that. i think average height and weight for SP in mlb is 6'2.5 and 210 which is about 2.8 coeffecient
3.0 is very hard to achieve when talking genetic FFMI limits. sure you can do it being sloppy but at 15%BF...not easy. that would be 216 for a 6' pitcher and put average weight around 223.
Paul is 6'6"=78"
weight is 235
coefficient= 3.01
so yea he is maxed on that. i dunno his strength numbers but i would imagine they are good, especially his chin and reverse lunge numbers and his ER/IR balance.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:05 pm to lsu777
quote:
especially his chin and reverse lunge numbers and his ER/IR balance.
Jesus, get out of mom’s basement and get some sun once in awhile.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:06 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Based on the fact that pitchers throw every pitch at max effort, w/as much velo as possible, which puts undue strain on the elbow/arm.
That isn't new. What is new the lack of coaching proper pitching form and teaching kids to throw curves and sliders at too young of an age. Also the ridiculous push to bring release points down to 3/4 or lower. It is all idiotic.
The Japanese have proven massive pitch counts aren't harmful on their own. There are always extenuating factors that are to blame.
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:41 pm to lsu777
If you think most mlb pitchers can’t hit those requirements, then you are looney
We aren’t about Gavin Guidry.
We are talking about shohei Ohtani, who can squat 500lbs for reps and is so flexible, he can invert his elbows.
MLB pitchers are like professional RBs. They almost all squat & deadlift 2.5-3 x their body weight. And they are all still getting hurt.
I will give a nod to that being more applicable to under developed amateurs & maybe some foreign from poor countries, but most professional mlb pitchers re-defy all of that.
We aren’t about Gavin Guidry.
We are talking about shohei Ohtani, who can squat 500lbs for reps and is so flexible, he can invert his elbows.
MLB pitchers are like professional RBs. They almost all squat & deadlift 2.5-3 x their body weight. And they are all still getting hurt.
I will give a nod to that being more applicable to under developed amateurs & maybe some foreign from poor countries, but most professional mlb pitchers re-defy all of that.
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:43 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Ryan touched 100 but didnt hit it consistently.
That will ruffle some feathers.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:48 pm to Lsuhoohoo
His throwing motion is so smooth and effortless, along with his size, he might not ever need it. It seems the smooth deliveries blow out arms less often than herky-jerky motions.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:49 pm to slackster
quote:
That will ruffle some feathers.
Why?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 12:55 pm to Lester Earl
Spencer Strider is baseball-centric “lift guy”.
He can split squat 500lbs & is a freak in the weight room. He had TJ at Clemson & just tore it again a few weeks ago.
Most American both pitchers & especially those that go to college have no issue with the drawn out strength & movement parameters that are said to keep you injury free.
He can split squat 500lbs & is a freak in the weight room. He had TJ at Clemson & just tore it again a few weeks ago.
Most American both pitchers & especially those that go to college have no issue with the drawn out strength & movement parameters that are said to keep you injury free.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:00 pm to notsince98
quote:
That isn't new. What is new the lack of coaching proper pitching form and teaching kids to throw curves and sliders at too young of an age. Also the ridiculous push to bring release points down to 3/4 or lower. It is all idiotic.
Yep. Kids shouldn't touch any off-speed(excluding change-ups) until they are 13-14 IMO.
Also, they don't need to play year round and quit specializing. Take breaks, play different sports, work different muscle groups. That is a big part in all of these injuries, also.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:14 pm to dnm3305
quote:
All considerably less consistent velocity than Skenes. Clemens sat at 96-97. Ryan touched 100 but didnt hit it consistently.
The hardest thrower of all time, Aroldis Chapman has never had TJ
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:14 pm to Lsuhoohoo
Aldronis Chapman 2 TJ surgeries.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:17 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Jesus, get out of mom’s basement and get some sun once in awhile.
i do engineering because it pays well
strength and performance training is my passion so i when im not at the fields, i read....alot and do lots of testing. sorry its not your thing
promise im not in my moms basement...not sitting on the internet all night or watching tv all night.
its cool its not your thing fattie.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:19 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Yep. Kids shouldn't touch any off-speed(excluding change-ups) until they are 13-14 IMO.
Also, they don't need to play year round and quit specializing. Take breaks, play different sports, work different muscle groups. That is a big part in all of these injuries, also.
Agreed on all points. I also think MLB teams babying pitchers with pitch counts hurts them. It makes sense in the spring when you’re trying to ramp them up, but after that they need to be throwing a lot. It’s the constant rest/stress cycles that frick with their arms.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 1:24 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
If you think most mlb pitchers can’t hit those requirements, then you are looney
i didnt say they couldnt. those are minimum requirements mainly for HS pitchers. they are baselines
quote:
We are talking about shohei Ohtani, who can squat 500lbs for reps and is so flexible, he can invert his elbows.
quote:
you are right. he is also a 2 way player with tons of mileagequote:and previous injury history. the 2 way player thing means he is fatigued quite often when pitching.
MLB pitchers are like professional RBs. They almost all squat & deadlift 2.5-3 x their body weight. And they are all still getting hurt.
no they dont and squat bi lateral squat is not the same as the stable postion that the reverse lunge puts you in.
and again...those numbers by heenan are min baseline numbers
quote:
most professional mlb pitchers re-defy all of that.
like i said average is still 2.8 coeffecient on w to h.
they are not nearly as advanced you beleive. heenan and cressy have talked abotu this, as has kyle at DL and brewster at thread.
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