re: How do y'all rate Nolan Ryan as a pitcher?

I think he could kick most of our asses RIGHT NOW, and he’s 79 fukkin years old.

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Utterly laughable.

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Is it? You gonna drop some data? He led the league in walks 8 times and was objectively a terrible fielder.

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The point is that IMO Ryan’s won-loss record was not horrifically impacted by the teams he played for, many of whom he was actually the No. 2 or No. 3 person on the staff. Now you want an example of a truly great, historically underrated pitcher whose record was impacted by the s**t teams he played for? Phil Niekro. Look, Ryan was absolutely great. He was a no-brainer first ballot Hall of Famer. I understand for whatever reason, the man is not just loved he is absolutely adored and revered by fans of my age. He did things no other pitcher will ever do again. But you give me the choice of any pitcher in the history of the sport to throw a seventh game of a World Series for me, he’s absolutely the last pitcher I would take because he’d be equally likely to throw a no-hitter or walk the ball park, and style points and entertainment value are irrelevant in a Series Game 7, all that matters is the W.

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I'm not denying any of this. In fact, I agree with it. I'm 54, so I remember the "Ryan Express" years very well. Pretty much the years you stated in your original post(1978-93) are the Ryan years I remember. When asked who is he best pitcher I've ever seen comes up Ryan never pops into my head. Instead Seaver, Carlton, Maddux, Clemens or the Big Unit does. Ryan is in my Too 10, but the point I'm trying to make is most of the teams he pitched on never even threatened making the playoffs.

The best man in my wedding played for the Yankees in the late 70's. In 1977 was brought up from AAA when the Yanks were playing the Angels with Ryan. First pitch on the 1st at bat was gas, and he thought what did I get my self into. Next pitch he swings hits a double down the 3rd base line. Next at bat an outside pitch he kind of throws the abt at the ball, a blooper down the right field line for a single.

He's feeling pretty good until the next at bat. 1st pitch inside to back him off the plate. Next pitch up in and to really get him off the plate. Billy Martin goes nuts, screaming at Ryan leave the kid alone just pitch the effing ball. Ryan looks at BIlly and smiles. Next pitch fastball right into his shoulder Swears to this day he still has the impression of the seams from the ball.

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Bo Jackson

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Was on the Sox when Ventura charged Ryan, ran out there when the benches cleared, and then Rangers Gino Petralli catcher bit him on the arm while Frank Thomas looked on in horror.

Had a very good curve that is totally forgotten

I ain’t talking shite about him if I’m getting in the box.

But… if you throw a baseball at me, let’s rock!!! He was mean. In some cases that don’t mean you’re great. However threw hard for a long time.

I covered a Huntsville Stars game one time when Don Mincher was the GM and in the press box before the game he recalled hitting a home run off Ryan in 1972 when Mincher was with the Rangers and Ryan was with the Angels. He said Ryan threw him a hellacious fastball but he got around on it and hit it out to dead center. What he said stuck with me: “That was all he had and that was all I had.” Isn’t that what it should be all about?

For the record, there’s a system called JAWS created by Jay Jaffe, who’s now the senior baseball writer for Sports Illustrated and for a long time was a writer and analyst for Baseball Prospectus, he’s also on MLB Network a lot (for what it’s worth, he’s a Hall of Fame voter).

I use it a lot for historical comparisons because it uses a player’s cumulative WAR plus his best seven seasons of WAR to cover his career peak.

That system has Ryan 30th overall among starting pitchers all time, which I think is about right. And before people start screaming, that’s 30th overall among every human being who’s thrown a pitch from a major league mound since 1869. I don’t think that’s an insult or a diss to Ryan.

The system also ranks him 23rd among starting pitchers post-World War II and 16th among starting pitchers from the 1960s on. If I were ranking just from the eye test I might put him higher.

FYI, the top 10 post WWII pitchers in those rankings (Walter Johnson is No, 1 and I don’t want to get into the silliness about him only throwing 80 mph) are Clemens, Seaver (who IMO is horribly underrated these days; I got into a fight on a Facebook baseball group one time with someone who tried to argue that Ryan was better and Seaver had him traded from the Mets out of jealousy, which is lunacy), Maddux, R. Johnson, Spahn, P. Martinez, Gibby, P. Niekro, Blyleven (another very underrated pitcher who played for s**tier teams than Ryan) and Carlton.

Not a lot of garbage there …