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re: Can someone explain the Kobe helicopter crash to me like I'm 5?
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:17 am to SlickRickerz
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:17 am to SlickRickerz
quote:
LAPD grounded their helicopters that morning.
LINK
Oh I know. I figured this is what you meant by most which is very misleading.
So, you really don't know that MOST helicopters were grounded because those are the only ones we've heard about.
Which btw the NTSB says is essentially meaningless because you can't compare 4 person helicopters that the police use to Kobe's heli.
Eta...btw, LA county also grounded their planes. This still doesn't mean MOST helis were grounded.
This post was edited on 1/31/20 at 10:21 am
1
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:18 am to SlickRickerz
quote:
LAPD grounded their helicopters that morning.
And that means most helos were grounded?
Police helos are useless in fog as they are used for visual support, not transportation. 
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:19 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:Because the flight path typically follows landmarks/roads and he was likely flying under the fog/clouds to keep a visual? Just an educated guess.
Why fly so low? Particularly if you are in thick fog and can’t see where you’re going, then why fly so low?
This post was edited on 1/31/20 at 10:20 am
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:27 am to LSUintheNW
Well kobe's helicopter is a 1991 S-76B that didn't have a black box nor a terrain warning system, so it wasn't equipped with all the latest tech. LAPD has 17 helicopters, and they were grounded because they normal fly at low attitudes searching for criminals and the fog prevented that. Kobe's pilot cracked under the stress and failed to make the proper maneuvers.
This post was edited on 1/31/20 at 10:29 am
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:31 am to SlickRickerz
Let us know when you know some new info.
We are up to date but thanks.
We are up to date but thanks.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:36 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
like I'm 5?
Kobe ran away
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:42 am to LSUintheNW
quote:
Let us know when you know some new info.
I don't know if this counts as "new info" but the New York Times has an article stating that the company that owned the helo had no authorization to navigate with instruments only because the company wasn't certified to do so.
Limited to VFR only.
Article
A fairly interesting article if you wanted to learn more about either Sikorsky helicopters or the Southern California helicopter chartering industry.
This post was edited on 1/31/20 at 10:52 am
Posted on 1/31/20 at 10:55 am to Walking the Earth
quote:
I don't know if this counts as "new info" but the New York Times has an article stating that the company that owned the helo had no authorization to navigate with instruments only because the company wasn't certified to do so.
Limited to VFR only.
I missed that article. Thanks.
Interesting.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 1:07 pm to LSUintheNW
Are we asking helicopters to do more than was ever intended?
Ability to hover, move slowly or laterally. All with huge assed rotors overhead. Seems they were never meant to be used in instrument only conditions. All the benefit of a helicopter is lost in poor or zero visibility.
Ability to hover, move slowly or laterally. All with huge assed rotors overhead. Seems they were never meant to be used in instrument only conditions. All the benefit of a helicopter is lost in poor or zero visibility.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 6:01 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Ability to hover, move slowly or laterally. All with huge assed rotors overhead. Seems they were never meant to be used in instrument only conditions. All the benefit of a helicopter is lost in poor or zero visibility.
WTF? You dont think going slower than 170 mph would have helped?
Posted on 1/31/20 at 7:02 pm to GeeOH
quote:
WTF? You dont think going slower than 170 mph would have helped?
Yes. What is a safe fog speed for a heli?
100mph lets say? How fast can a helicopter "brake" from near that speed to hover?
What I meant by my point was (and I am honestly asking pilots) when did they begin putting altimeters and instruments on helicopters? Meaning instruments for flying with zero visibility? Was a helicopter made originally for what it is doing now?
And I know the Wright brothers probably did not conceive of pressurized 34-40K foot altitudes at Kittyhawk.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 7:27 pm to LSU alum wannabe
Each and every helicopter is slightly different. But in general most helicopters operate most efficiently at or around 75 KIAS. The aircraft demonstrates And performs the best at that airspeed, that doesn’t mean that what any helicopter should fly at, but that airspeed a helicopter generally the most stable and effective.
When you are in a situation like that everything speeds up. You have better ground reference so you feel like you are going very fast. But normally that’s not a big deal because there is minimal or no in plane reference to speed. What I mean by that, is on a normal VFR day there isn’t a cloud layer or fog to add a 2nd plane of reference for how fast you are actually going so it adds to your proprioceptive sense of control. When that 2nd plane of reference is added into the mix things appear to happen much faster than normal, when in actuality it’s happening at the same normal rate just lacking an additional reference point. It is like driving a car down a very narrow 2 lane road compared to an empty 3 lane highway.
Also with the latest info of the carrier not having an Ops Spec for single pilot IFR it makes much more sense to what happened. The legal ramifications of entering IFR/IMC conditions without having the Ops Specs for it would result in suspension or revoking his license. Or he would have to declare and emergency going Inadvertent IMC. Which he most likely did do and tried to recover without declaring and emergency and committing to instruments Most likely lost a ground reference causing him to over correct and lose control of the helicopter.
I’m not saying it couldn’t have still been a mechanical issue, but that is just my educated guess as more information is released.
When you are in a situation like that everything speeds up. You have better ground reference so you feel like you are going very fast. But normally that’s not a big deal because there is minimal or no in plane reference to speed. What I mean by that, is on a normal VFR day there isn’t a cloud layer or fog to add a 2nd plane of reference for how fast you are actually going so it adds to your proprioceptive sense of control. When that 2nd plane of reference is added into the mix things appear to happen much faster than normal, when in actuality it’s happening at the same normal rate just lacking an additional reference point. It is like driving a car down a very narrow 2 lane road compared to an empty 3 lane highway.
Also with the latest info of the carrier not having an Ops Spec for single pilot IFR it makes much more sense to what happened. The legal ramifications of entering IFR/IMC conditions without having the Ops Specs for it would result in suspension or revoking his license. Or he would have to declare and emergency going Inadvertent IMC. Which he most likely did do and tried to recover without declaring and emergency and committing to instruments Most likely lost a ground reference causing him to over correct and lose control of the helicopter.
I’m not saying it couldn’t have still been a mechanical issue, but that is just my educated guess as more information is released.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 7:48 pm to LSU alum wannabe
1. You're assuming the helicopter flew directly into the mountain.
2. The pilot never should have been in IMC, irregardless of capabilities of the helicopter.
2. The pilot never should have been in IMC, irregardless of capabilities of the helicopter.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:15 pm to KosmoCramer
Great video posted on YouTube a few hours ago.
Covering everything basically.
YouTube LINK
Eta....only 23 min is dedicated to the accident. Watch at least 19 min.
Covering everything basically.
YouTube LINK
Eta....only 23 min is dedicated to the accident. Watch at least 19 min.
This post was edited on 1/31/20 at 8:17 pm
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:19 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Ability to hover, move slowly or laterally. All with huge assed rotors overhead. Seems they were never meant to be used in instrument only conditions.
I just posted a video where they say that helicopter isn't capable of hovering in IMC.
Good watch I thought.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:25 pm to LSUintheNW
Pilots have a difficult time hovering IMC. Almost impossible, definitely impractical, but aerodynamically a helicopter performs the same in clouds as it does out of clouds.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:29 pm to LSUintheNW
quote:
I just posted a video where they say that helicopter isn't capable of hovering in IMC.
Good watch I thought.
The minimum speed for the Sikorsky is 50 kias.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:36 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
kias
Another acronym learned
Why didnt this pilot just say....hey, Kobe....this isn't going to happen. Gotta go back.
Ugggg
Or land nearby and hop in an uber. Damn....
So sad. So preventable.
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:42 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
100mph lets say? How fast can a helicopter "brake" from near that speed to hover?
What I meant by my point was (and I am honestly asking pilots) when did they begin putting altimeters and instruments on helicopters? Meaning instruments for flying with zero visibility? Was a helicopter made originally for what it is doing now?
Honestly, a helicopter can come to a hoovering stop in seconds....and it's not hard. Straight powered helis use tilt of blades for forward propulsion and "pitch" and power for going higher from a hoover.
Turbine powered use the thrust of the turbine to push them forward, while the blades give them the lift.
quote:
What is a safe fog speed for a heli?
If you are a confused pilot, you can quickly go to hoover while you figure things out. The confusion with this scenario is that he kept going almost 200 mph.
It's in thing to be confused, but you air speed is relative to ground and is not confusing.
All he had to do is slow his speed and take a breath
Posted on 1/31/20 at 8:45 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
The minimum speed for the Sikorsky is 50 kias.
That may be V Mini, meaning the minimum indicated airspeed to engage the autopilots.
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