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re: The social security tax cap is going to be lifted before 2033.

Posted on 4/21/25 at 10:44 am to
Posted by VABuckeye
NOVA
Member since Dec 2007
38283 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 10:44 am to
The social security tax cap has been increased severl times in the past. This is nothing new.
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5571 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 10:45 am to
I’ve long favored shifting the FICA taxes up and stretching them out further. Rather than cut income taxes on those making $150,000 or less, I’d deliver lower income tax relief by exempting $0-$something from fica taxes. I’d make up the difference by pushing the cap from $~166k to something much higher but with smaller rates.

I’d also apply fica taxes on capital gains over a certain amount.

Social security is the most successful program of the 20th century. It did more to eliminate senior poverty and needs to be funded. Poor old people will lead to a bloody revolution
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 11:00 am to
quote:

Social security is the most successful program of the 20th century. It did more to eliminate senior poverty and needs to be funded.

That's quite a trick sense the main beneficiary of SS is Uncle Sam, not seniors
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4045 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 11:10 am to
I think I see the problem here.

Everyone who lived through the Great Depression is dead.

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 11:39 am to
quote:

I think I see the problem here.

Everyone who lived through the Great Depression is dead.

No.

The problem here is the ROI on SS as a retirement vehicle sucks.
If the program was simply about retirement and senior stability, i.e., a national pension fund, the size of SS checks for seniors could easily exceed 2x their current payout based on contribution amounts, and sustain those within a permanently solvent program.

But SS is not a retirement vehicle.
It is a government borrowing program masking itself as a senior benefit.

As I've pointed out many times, FDR's motivation for SS was to attain a source of borrowing to fund New Deal initiatives at a time where willing lending entities were few and far between. Labeling the program as a senior "benefit" was marketing genius.
Posted by FMtTXtiger
Member since Oct 2018
4991 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 11:56 am to
Ive never understood why we dont increase cost on new earners vs everyone who has already contributed for years.
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2920 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Ive never understood why we dont increase cost on new earners vs everyone who has already contributed for years.

That might be the most Boomer thing I've ever read. I'm not one to blame Boomers but in this case, they've known SS was heading for a cliff but refused to act during their peak earning years. Now the problem is foisted on younger generations and they are a large enough demo to resist cuts.to their own benefits. Although, realistically govt just spent their contributions anyway and issued debt so what would the point of more contributions to get ahead of the problem be?
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5571 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

If the program was simply about retirement and senior stability, i.e., a national pension fund, the size of SS checks for seniors could easily exceed 2x their current payout based on contribution amounts, and sustain those within a permanently solvent program. But SS is not a retirement vehicle. It is a government borrowing program masking itself as a senior benefit.


You won’t get an argument from me that the government should not be allowed to divert social security funds away from social security. But both things can be true. Social Security is the most successful entitlement program the US has implemented, and it would be far more solvent with better stewardship.

But don’t blame me I voted for Al Gore and his lock box.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
73218 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 8:16 pm to
The whole “raiding ss” thing is a bit of a myth:

quote:

A common argument asserts that Social Security’s financial difficulties are simply the result of lawmakers raiding its $3 trillion trust fund. In reality, the trust fund was always just an accounting mechanism. It never contained real economic resources from which to pay benefits, and there was never any statutory mechanism for Congress to “save” the $3 trillion surplus that Social Security ran between 1983 and 2009. Instead, the Social Security Administration (SSA) was required by law to lend its surpluses to the Treasury to finance current government spending—with a promise that the Treasury (i.e., the taxpayers) would repay the Social Security system (with interest) down the road when it begins to run deficits. The balance of the Social Security trust fund is merely a running tally of how much of that $3 trillion loan has yet to be repaid to SSA by the Treasury and taxpayers. It is not a savings account with economic resources from which to pay the benefits.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91362 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 8:22 pm to
quote:

Then every one of them will get thrown out on their ear ... deservedly. Plus I'm not sure such stupidity could withstand the inherent legal challenges.


The biggest turnover of congressional officials in our lifetime is coming in the early to mid 2030s. None of the SS options are great, and congress has shown no desire to correct them until they get to the ultimatum that 2033/2034 will bring.
Posted by IMSA_Fan
Member since Jul 2024
570 posts
Posted on 4/21/25 at 9:23 pm to
Why don’t they just raise the age that people can begin to draw SS and Medicare to 68 (or have some sliding age scale that balances it all out)? I feel like that would fix a lot of the issues.
This post was edited on 4/21/25 at 9:25 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 4/22/25 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

The whole “raiding ss” thing is a bit of a myth:
Correct.

SS was designed to be "raided" from its inception. It's never strayed from that mission.
Posted by omegaman66
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
26327 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 9:56 am to
NOBODY knows what the heck is going to happen yet unless they have ESPN. To know what is going to happen would mean they know what congress is going to do with all the waste and fraud being uncovered. Will they cut allocation of funds that were going to fund stuff that never should have been funded? All, some, none? How much money can be saved by DOGE streamlining departments? How much will be saved simply by cutting out SS fraud?

And don't say that taxes other than ss tax don't affect ss because that isn't true. Regular income tax goes to SS disability payments already.

Time will tell and anyone that thinks they know, might be right, but it is still just a guess and sometime you guess right. Sometimes not.

My guess is that it will at least be pushed out well past 2033.
Posted by UltimaParadox
North Carolina
Member since Nov 2008
51556 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 10:07 am to
quote:

To know what is going to happen would mean they know what congress is going to do with all the waste and fraud being uncovered.


DOGE already said they expected to save 150B through FY26. While significant amount of money, that's a drop in the bucket compared to other budget items.

So we aren't looking to DOGE for any significant savings
Posted by omegaman66
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
26327 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 10:16 am to
I have seen that figure and that can not be the total savings. Because you can quickly get a much higher figure by adding up some of the most publicized things they have identified. That must be a subset being talked about.

But, like I have said from the get go, DOGE hasn't save a single penny. They can only identify place to save. The only thing they do is produce paperwork. If their paper work is acted on then and only then are saving realized.
Posted by UltimaParadox
North Carolina
Member since Nov 2008
51556 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Because you can quickly get a much higher figure by adding up some of the most publicized things they have identified

They posted shite on X but never followed through. The DOGE website itself reflects the much lower number.

Govt spending ahead of last year and above current budget
Posted by mule74
Watersound Beach
Member since Nov 2004
12542 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:07 am to
That will be an extra $100k+ in taxes for my wife and me.

It infuriates me that we have a tax code that punishes high W2 earning households in the $500k-$1.5mm range while letting billionaires skate by virtually no effective tax rate.

My wife and I I have been trying to diversify rapidly into rental properties with LLCs so that we can lower our overall tax rate.

I’m not jealous of anyone else and I am not arguing for higher taxes on anyone. However, people in my boat absolutely get screwed the hardest under the current code.
Posted by Harry Boutte
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2024
3788 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:26 am to


You're right, they should really be trying to squeeze more out the bottom 10%.

I feel sorry for you.
Posted by mule74
Watersound Beach
Member since Nov 2004
12542 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 11:50 am to
quote:

You're right, they should really be trying to squeeze more out the bottom 10%. I feel sorry for you.


I absolutely did not say or imply that. Read.

Listen to a guy like Buffet who has openly said that we need to find ways to increase the effective rate on billionaires. Read about Elon living off loans against his stock that are not taxable.

I’m not sure how to do it, because a wealth tax seems impossible to implement effectively. Somehow though we have to increase revenue from the top .0001%.

Right now it’s the 80%-99.5% that take it in the chin.
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2920 posts
Posted on 4/23/25 at 1:03 pm to
I dont know how you do that without taxing unrealized gains as Biden/Harris proposed but that would be problematic. Biden also proposed capping stepped up basis at death to $1m and taxing anything above that at 30+% which would be outrageous. Whenever I go back and lookmat those proposals it surprises me there was nearly zero backlash. I think a strong case can be made for eliminating stepped up basis but it wouldnt bring in more than a few dozen Billion $/yr. Still, makes no sense to me that the earner/investor pays tax on gains in their lifetime but heirs that neither earned the capital to invest or risked it, never pay tax on those same gains when eventually realized. Also, I know we want to encourage investing in the economy but tax rates on an individuals labor income are much higher than passive investment income which seems unjust.
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