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re: Senate passes “Inflation Reduction Act” - $430B and mostly climate change spending

Posted on 8/8/22 at 10:43 am to
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 10:43 am to
This spending is actually disinflationary/deflationary
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35879 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:12 am to
Pretty sure that's an oxymoron.

Kevin O'Leary was just talking about how stupid it is to include EV credits when the producers can't even keep up with demand right now. Just printing more money/bumping demand. That's not deflationary.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 11:16 am
Posted by Triple Bogey
19th Green
Member since May 2017
6572 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:32 am to
shite pisses me off. They're going to bolster the IRS as well. Get ready for your audit next year as they look into your $40 venmo transactions.
Posted by Oates Mustache
Member since Oct 2011
26079 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:42 am to
They're adding 87,000 IRS agent positions. The whole agency only has around 80,000 employees total. This is fricking insane and should scare every single American.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:46 am to
quote:

Pretty sure that's an oxymoron.



It's not. We are at the point where unproductive spending creates negative growth. It's referred to as marginal revenue product by economists. This isn't the CARES Act where they are dumping cash into consumer bank accounts.
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35879 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 11:52 am to
quote:

We are at the point where unproductive spending creates negative growth.


Link?

And so we're saying that printing and spending money poorly is good policy?
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 12:19 pm to
FML

Debt financed spending isn't printing money

You're putting words into my mouth I didn't say it's good policy. Ease up a bit, baw. We've been run by complete clowns since GFC1.

Housington Economic Review

Bare in mind that all of these issues are materially worse now than when this was written.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 12:23 pm
Posted by Pezzo
Member since Aug 2020
2874 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Imagine that govt spending is one of the primary drivers of inflation


government spending is the only reason for inflation.
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35879 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 1:02 pm to
Did a quick scan/search and didn't see the support for this spending being deflationary.

Admittedly didn't read the whole thing.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 1:03 pm
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 1:19 pm to
It’s just ones guys estimate but he calculates a $0.20 return for every dollar issued…in 2019
Posted by Pendulum
Member since Jan 2009
7929 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 1:25 pm to
Looking at some long TLT options this morning. It's laughable that the federal government is passing this as inflation reduction primarily; there is only really inflationary things in this bill, outside of extremely long timelines or just arguing spending on anything is deflationary so we return back to what's in the actual bill if all spending is relatively the same deflationary force. FED is so fked and stuck.
This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 1:27 pm
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 1:55 pm to
I’m long AF bond convexity via TLT calls. Trade went sideways Friday but I’m staying long AF. It’s government policy to create a credit and collateral crisis so might as well be on the right side of it.
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1582 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 2:34 pm to
quote:

hey're going to bolster the IRS as well. Get ready for your audit next year as they look into your $40 venmo transactions.



I was already audited last year. Nothing came of it. Not much to audit. lol
But i was in Limbo for months and months for no reason. My taxes are simple and can be audited in 5 mins. wasted my time and theirs.

Also I think this stupid bill just crushed the market rally. Im going back to 75% cash today.
Posted by Pendulum
Member since Jan 2009
7929 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 2:58 pm to
Not to mention, one of chief elements of this inflation that the FED is targeting is wage growth. Then a inflation reduction act basically increases jobs indirectly through the tax credits and then directly through the IRS adding like .5% of total workers in job openings.

Timing aside, the bill itself is less insulting to the american people then the name chosen for it. It's basically like the Dems admitting the american people are retarded, why not call it the green bill? Because it wouldn't pass because the name? What does that say about the bill? It couldn't pass if it were accurately labeled....hmmm

Kevin O'leary had a good point this morning; this could be bullish as this is the bill the dems chose to ram through before they lose legislation power, the damage they can do to the economy has been quantified now in a way.

This post was edited on 8/8/22 at 3:03 pm
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
32765 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

There is a huge movement in big, leftist run cities to minimize/eliminate gas stoves, supposedly because of emissions.

Those idiots can enjoy their crappy electric stoves. My gas stove is far superior and costs much less to use
Posted by MMauler
Primary This RINO Traitor
Member since Jun 2013
23919 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

climate change spending


So more Solyndra Democrat donor payoffs in the name of this scam and hoax.
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
34878 posts
Posted on 8/8/22 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

this is the bill the dems chose to ram through before they lose legislation power


They aren't losing power in either chamber. In fact they will get theb52 in the senate to kill the filibuster.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
25200 posts
Posted on 8/9/22 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

Kevin O'Leary was just talking about how stupid it is to include EV credits when the producers can't even keep up with demand right now. Just printing more money/bumping demand. That's not deflationary.


It's a case of ideology unrelated to good sense or rational practicality. There are around 260 million vehicles in the US. If they were all replaced with EV's, I wonder how many new power plants would be needed?
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35373 posts
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:00 am to
quote:

It's a case of ideology unrelated to good sense or rational practicality. There are around 260 million vehicles in the US. If they were all replaced with EV's, I wonder how many new power plants would be needed?
Regardless of the merits/effectiveness of the bill itself, I’m not sure I understand the question, as it seems to ignore basic economics in general.

In other words, in a scenario where 260 million cars are all EV, then in that same scenario, there would likely be far more supply of solar power, and combined with all power sources, they would likely be close to enough to meet the additional demand, if not not even more.

More particularly, in pretty much any scenario of something’s demand, there is going to be prices elasticity or that demand, and thus dependent to some degree on supply, including the supply to making that thing work. So however and whenever it gets to 260 million cars, it was partially dependent on supply.

So any question about any hypothetical that drastically changes one side of the equation, without considering both the known causes and effect of the equation, is always a poor question, and at best coming from a place of ignorance or at worst, coming from a place of dishonesty.
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