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Message
Proper way to fire a recent hire that was the wrong position
Posted on 9/24/20 at 9:37 am
Posted on 9/24/20 at 9:37 am
I have a small business with under 10 employees, so there’s some positions that have multiple hats. I hired a guy this summer that was a job with multiple hats, basically both hands on field work and office work for roughly a 50/50 split but that he would be the primary for the field work. This was very clearly discussed and being a small business, we didn’t exactly have the exact hours and jobs hammered down so it was expected that it would have to be open to different responsibilities.
Basically now it’s come down to we need him for the next year or more to do a lot more field work, and it’s both not his strong suit nor an interest to the point of avoiding and refusing some tasks. It was extremely well explained that we felt we had 2 choices, hire a field employee for cheaper and run the risk the office work would slack or hire an office worker for more that was willing to do the field work. We did the latter and it’s not working.
So I take some responsibility in potentially not hiring a better fit, but I’m now in a situation I’m overpaying, not having jobs completed, and without doing the field work I don’t have enough other work for remotely close to a FT employee.
We’re about to have the discussion on it being time to put up or shut up for him. But I came to ask if it’s fair in the current job market to offer some sort of severance? I’d be happy to pay 30 days and maybe some more, financially it makes sense for the company to find a better fit.
TLDR: Is there a proper protocol when the wrong position is hired and you don’t need them? Inb4 stop being a vagina and fire him.
Basically now it’s come down to we need him for the next year or more to do a lot more field work, and it’s both not his strong suit nor an interest to the point of avoiding and refusing some tasks. It was extremely well explained that we felt we had 2 choices, hire a field employee for cheaper and run the risk the office work would slack or hire an office worker for more that was willing to do the field work. We did the latter and it’s not working.
So I take some responsibility in potentially not hiring a better fit, but I’m now in a situation I’m overpaying, not having jobs completed, and without doing the field work I don’t have enough other work for remotely close to a FT employee.
We’re about to have the discussion on it being time to put up or shut up for him. But I came to ask if it’s fair in the current job market to offer some sort of severance? I’d be happy to pay 30 days and maybe some more, financially it makes sense for the company to find a better fit.
TLDR: Is there a proper protocol when the wrong position is hired and you don’t need them? Inb4 stop being a vagina and fire him.
6
Posted on 9/24/20 at 9:46 am to baldona
If you pay severance to a guy you just hired in the summer, you're better than 90% of employers out there. My company fired a chick who had been there 20 years and gave her two weeks. They were all "see ya later, sister!" Yowzas.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 9:48 am to baldona
quote:
hired a guy this summer that was a job with multiple hats
quote:
both hands on field work and office work for roughly a 50/50 split but that he would be the primary for the field work. This was very clearly discussed
quote:
not his strong suit nor an interest to the point of avoiding and refusing some tasks
quote:
I’m overpaying
quote:
not having jobs completed
quote:
without doing the field work I don’t have enough other work for remotely close to a FT employee.
quote:
pay 30 days
quote:
find a better fit.
I think you know the answer.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 9:48 am to baldona
I mean if he's refusing to do tasks, it doesn't sound like a bad fit, he just doesn't sound like a good employee. Document his refusals in his file and just get rid of him
Posted on 9/24/20 at 10:09 am to Jobo
quote:
mean if he's refusing to do tasks, it doesn't sound like a bad fit, he just doesn't sound like a good employee. Document his refusals in his file and just get rid of him
It’s mostly because he is inexperienced with the field work and it’s with customers. So he doesn’t want to screw up in front of them. It’s not hard stuff and in 2-3 months he could be very proficient.
He expected it being more the office job with less field work then it’s being. He’s being a bad team player basically, definitely fireable.
I’m not a sucker Covid was just hell on our business earlier in the year so I have some sympathy for my people right now.
ETA: im also trying to create a positive work environment and be a good company to work for.
This post was edited on 9/24/20 at 10:11 am
Posted on 9/24/20 at 10:20 am to baldona
The job market is so terrible the put up or shut up conversation may light a fire under him.
Is there someone that can train him for a day or two so he isn't just failing on his own?
Is there someone that can train him for a day or two so he isn't just failing on his own?
Posted on 9/24/20 at 10:22 am to baldona
If it's a confidence thing for him, is there opportunity to provide more training/support in the short term to get him up to speed and boost that? Having someone more experienced go with him on assignments? And I guess the bigger question is do you have confidence he could grow into that role and be successful and a team player. If the answer to that is no, I think that answers the overall question.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 10:30 am to baldona
quote:
It’s mostly because he is inexperienced with the field work and it’s with customers. So he doesn’t want to screw up in front of them. It’s not hard stuff and in 2-3 months he could be very proficient.
What kind of field work are we talking about here? Like changing out engines and transmissions? Or something relatively simple?
Does he think he's better than the work? Is he lazy? Is he just clueless? Or does he need training to be proficient to do the fieldwork? The answer to your question requires honest answers to those questions.
I had a kid working for me who would stand there with his hands in his pockets when we were working. He wasn't lazy, knew how to do the work, and didn't think he was above it. He had just never lived outside his parents house, his mother did everything for him, and it didn't occur to him to pitch in.
I had a conversation with him about it and made him aware of the issue and now he's a elbow deep in work all the time.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 10:53 am to baldona
As you well know, changing out an employee is going to take more time and money out of your pocket.
Have you had a conversation with him?
It seems like you, not him, screwed this up (and you seem to admit that, good for you). Maybe sit down with him, say, look, here's the deal, this is new for us, we need more field work, etc, see what he says. If that's not what he is looking for, I think offering him 30 days severance in exchange for resignation letter (to protect you against unemployment claim) and offering him a good recommendation might be the way to go.
How quickly do you think he could find work in your market?
The risk you run is a reputational risk, if word gets out that you are employer that doesn't know what he wants from his employees, that could make hiring people harder in the future. Again, this is an issue of market and demand.
Have you had a conversation with him?
It seems like you, not him, screwed this up (and you seem to admit that, good for you). Maybe sit down with him, say, look, here's the deal, this is new for us, we need more field work, etc, see what he says. If that's not what he is looking for, I think offering him 30 days severance in exchange for resignation letter (to protect you against unemployment claim) and offering him a good recommendation might be the way to go.
How quickly do you think he could find work in your market?
The risk you run is a reputational risk, if word gets out that you are employer that doesn't know what he wants from his employees, that could make hiring people harder in the future. Again, this is an issue of market and demand.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 11:26 am to Enos Burdette
quote:
What kind of field work are we talking about here? Like changing out engines and transmissions? Or something relatively simple?
He doesn’t want to do it and is not motivated because he isn’t interested. He has stated he didn’t understand the job requirements in the chats we’ve had. Which is absurd because they were clearly written down and he signed them during his offer.
His position is under operations leadership, and he thought he would be more of the office leader then using his hands in the field. He has no interest in learning, if he did at this point in time he would already know it.
I like him and hired him because he is motivated and a quick learner, but he doesn’t do that for the things we need just what he wants. I haven’t fired him already because he has a lot of things like and want, but is failing more and more on what I currently need.
The conversation has already been had that our next hire may be a full time field person. But my issue again is in that case I don’t really need him anymore potentially. So I’m constantly asking myself why should I wait?
His ideal career path is not what I need, and we’ve discussed that as long term working fine but short term I gotta have work completed.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 11:32 am to baldona
Sounds like he already knows this is coming and is expecting it, hence not completing work and being a bad employee.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 11:39 am to baldona
quote:
He doesn’t want to do it and is not motivated because he isn’t interested. He has stated he didn’t understand the job requirements in the chats we’ve had. Which is absurd because they were clearly written down and he signed them during his offer.
If the expectations were clear and he isn't doing it because he doesn't want to then that's all the reason you need.
quote:
His position is under operations leadership, and he thought he would be more of the office leader then using his hands in the field.
Sounds like he wants an office job exclusively, which is fine, but that's not what you need. If you feel like you should give him severance, do it, but I don't think there would or should be any expectation of a severance package based on the term of his employment or the quality of work he's shown. Again, if you feel you should do it, I wouldn't pay him more than two weeks.
To me a severance package is something for a tenured employee, someone who is being let go because of budgetary reasons/necessity but who has otherwise been a great employee, or a senior management level position.
Doesn't sound like he meets those criteria and his attitude hasn't been one that would motivate me to pay him any further.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 11:42 am to baldona
"things did not work out, we will no longer need you, thank you"
This post was edited on 9/24/20 at 11:44 am
Posted on 9/24/20 at 2:31 pm to baldona
quote:If he is not doing the work you need him to do because he is not motivated and uninterested; then you are creating a negative environment for your other employees.
im also trying to create a positive work environment and be a good company to work for.
quote:
He has stated he didn’t understand the job requirements in the chats we’ve had. Which is absurd because they were clearly written down and he signed them during his offer.
This is a clear case of the employee did not meet management's expectations.
Severance package is not necessary and is basically you going above and beyond as a nice guy. Keep in mind that you may be setting a precedent with your current staff if they catch wind of this. If you do decide to offer a severance, make sure you are specific and provide proof when you fill out any separation notice with your local unemployment office.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 2:33 pm to Enos Burdette
Sounds like an easy decision then. Sit him down, tell him this is the new role if he wants it, and if he doesn't here's one month's severance.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:04 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:job market is strong in central Alabama, especially in factories. is it not that way in other places?
The job market is so terrible the put up or shut up conversation may light a fire under him.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:15 pm to baldona
quote:
He’s being a bad team player basically, definitely fireable.
i have 8 employees.
the bolded part would be an insta-fire.
cant happen in a small business
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:38 pm to baldona
quote:
It’s mostly because he is inexperienced with the field work and it’s with customers. So he doesn’t want to screw up in front of them. It’s not hard stuff and in 2-3 months he could be very proficient.
This sounds like a face-to-face discussion that needs to be had. Let him know the role needs to be modified and you are there to help coach him up but he just doesn't want to do it then other staffing changes might be required.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 5:03 pm to baldona
Can you figure out what his office hour times are for the desired jobs and then furlough the rest of his hours? Move forward with hiring a field employee and then cut bait once new hire is up to speed.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 5:16 pm to MikeD
quote:
Can you figure out what his office hour times are for the desired jobs and then furlough the rest of his hours? Move forward with hiring a field employee and then cut bait once new hire is up to speed.
Right now his office hours are like 10 hours a week. He's not going to accept that and I don't really need that plus a full time field employee would be a lot easier to hire than a part time or whatever.
Some good advice here.
I hate to blame it on the millennial attitude, but that's basically it. He doesn't want to get his hands dirty to earn his keep and work his way back up, he basically wants to maintain what he thinks his status quo is from a previous job. Which I interviewed him in the winter, then delayed the hiring due to covid 4 months, then he was still basically unemployed from a salaried job. He has some side work hustles he does to get by but I also get the feeling he's particular about what he'll do.
Another part of the problem is that his office job is overlooking the field work. So if he doesn't want to learn how its down and know how its done, he's not going to be effective long term in the position he'd grow into.
We'll have a firm conversation this week and he'll have an option or 2. I don't think he deserves anything, but I'd rather give him some options and let him choose.
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