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Started By
Message
No, there are no tariffs — all you have to do is build your plant in the United States
Posted on 10/15/24 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 10/15/24 at 1:36 pm
10
Posted on 10/15/24 at 1:51 pm to boomtown143
Sounds good, but Americans are addicted to their widgets produced in Asia for slave wages.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 2:12 pm to DrrTiger
quote:
Sounds good, but Americans are addicted to their widgets produced in Asia for slave wages.
America can’t compete with the price of slave labor. That doesn’t mean people like or want those goods. But the price difference puts American production out of business. The tariffs will balance the issue out and give American business a chance to compete and win
Posted on 10/15/24 at 2:22 pm to Upperdecker
Can you find labor to work in those plants in the US. Based on the people in our country right now, there are alot of unmotivated folks.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 2:30 pm to boomtown143
Sounds great on paper, but the real world results aren’t quite as simple.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 2:47 pm to boomtown143
If only it were that easy
Posted on 10/15/24 at 2:53 pm to boomtown143
It really just depends on how far he actually ends up going. I think saying publicly that you're going to use a sledgehammer approach is good for a soundbite, but when we get down to business he will have a scalpel (or at least a smaller hammer).
The US is so central to the economies of other countries that I do think it could be pretty successful. A good more modern example of it being a success is the tariffs on cars. We pay way less for trucks than Europe does.
The US is so central to the economies of other countries that I do think it could be pretty successful. A good more modern example of it being a success is the tariffs on cars. We pay way less for trucks than Europe does.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 3:21 pm to Boss
quote:
Can you find labor to work in those plants in the US.
Yes
quote:
Based on the people in our country right now, there are alot of unmotivated folks.
Hunger is an excellent motivator.
We do have a problem with unmotivated folks in this country, because we have made the safety net a hammock. The solution must be multipronged:
1. Recreate manufacturing/production jobs in the US
2. Stop allowing unfettered illegal immigration to undermine wages
3. Overhaul our SS disability system.
4-? There are other steps that need to be taken but let's start there
Posted on 10/15/24 at 4:05 pm to DrrTiger
This argument isn't based in reality.
You will raise the income, create jobs...etc That does not mean the cost will go up.
Example I saw by a poster here was washing machines. Trump raised the tariffs to 25% on those. Samsung built here to avoid it. The cost of washing machines did not soar.
You will raise the income, create jobs...etc That does not mean the cost will go up.
Example I saw by a poster here was washing machines. Trump raised the tariffs to 25% on those. Samsung built here to avoid it. The cost of washing machines did not soar.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 4:18 pm to BCreed1
quote:
You will raise the income, create jobs...etc That does not mean the cost will go up.
Example I saw by a poster here was washing machines. Trump raised the tariffs to 25% on those. Samsung built here to avoid it. The cost of washing machines did not soar.
Maga: frick all organized labor, they are a cancer that only serves to raise prices on consumers because they are overpaid.
Also Maga: Hiring and training workers that cost 15x as much on top of 8 to 9 figures of unplanned CapEx will put little to no upward pressure on prices.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 4:34 pm to Lightning
quote:It seems a near certainty that the demographic you are talking about is, on average, obese.
Hunger is an excellent motivator.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 4:35 pm to BCreed1
quote:
That does not mean the cost will go up.
For the last ten years or so, I’ve been making a concerted effort to buy American made products over imported when I can. The prices are almost always higher than the equivalent Chinese option. Now I’m fine with that because the quality is usually better, I’ll probably have it longer, and I like supporting American business. But a lot of people only care about the price. If they can get what they view as the “same thing” for a few bucks cheaper, they won’t give it a second thought.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 7:14 pm to DrrTiger
I'm the one that raised the washing machine back when Trump was president.
People fail to realize that Teump raised wages the right way. It was argued that the price of a washing machine was going to go up $100 dollars.
I pointed out that the cost, if it did go up, is spread out over the life of the machine. Average was about 10 years. So 10 dollars per year.
Vs
Getting higher wages that far exceed that cost.
As boomtown pointed out, what will happen is we will see China reduce their currency to make up for it. The dollar will get stronger.... our middle class will grow.
As Bcreed pointed out, we have always had tariffs. At one point, tariffs funded thebfederal gov. Not the people via income taxes.
People fail to realize that Teump raised wages the right way. It was argued that the price of a washing machine was going to go up $100 dollars.
I pointed out that the cost, if it did go up, is spread out over the life of the machine. Average was about 10 years. So 10 dollars per year.
Vs
Getting higher wages that far exceed that cost.
As boomtown pointed out, what will happen is we will see China reduce their currency to make up for it. The dollar will get stronger.... our middle class will grow.
As Bcreed pointed out, we have always had tariffs. At one point, tariffs funded thebfederal gov. Not the people via income taxes.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 7:31 pm to boomtown143
This guys says it best.
Trump is using it a bargaining chip
He will tariff only products America makes.
They will come and negotiate.
Trump is using it a bargaining chip
He will tariff only products America makes.
They will come and negotiate.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 10/15/24 at 7:50 pm to boomtown143
Posted on 10/15/24 at 8:56 pm to achenator
quote:
If only it were that easy
It is if you devalue to dxy 60 or so. Which kills the dollar's GRC status and the US sovereign debt market. The entire long end of the curve goes on the Fed's balance sheet immediately and permanently. The vast majority of the US military comes home immediately and permanently.
Luke Gromen has done the math, dxy 60 would do it, you could pay $60/hr (in today's dollars) in the manufacturing sector and compete with Asia (assuming a very inflationary retooling/retraining process).
If Trump would say all that I would not only take him seriously, I would support it. China loses, the jackals in Washington and Wall St lose, America wins. That's playbook. That's the only way to reshore without involving bottled unicorn farts and pixie dust. Trump being termed out means he is the only one who could pull it off politically.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 9:45 pm to Boss
quote:
Can you find labor to work in those plants in the US. Based on the people in our country right now, there are alot of unmotivated folks.
I can’t help but read this and think back to so many episodes on Shark Tank. Investor comes in and has a good product and it is being made here in the USA and the first thing the sharks bring up is we need to manufacture overseas to get your cost down. That is their immediate go to strategy it seems.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:06 pm to Upperdecker
quote:Stop giving people incentives to not work and they’ll have to work. Too many handouts in the USA.
America can’t compete with the price of slave labor. That doesn’t mean people like or want those goods. But the price difference puts American production out of business. The tariffs will balance the issue out and give American business a chance to compete and win
Start locking up drug dealers. If 10 go to jail and 5 come out and decide the life of crime isn’t for them they’ll have to get a job. They won’t have an education or a skill so guess what they’ll have to find unskilled labor.
Stop telling our children the only way to make a living is a college degree. Theres not a damn thing wrong with being a carpenter, electrician, plumber, welder, machinist or mechanic. Too many with student loan debt and nothing gained from it.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:29 pm to boomtown143
I've spent a decade in the trenches every day with importers and business owners moving anywhere from 10-800 containers per year running a global freight forwarder. I've been exposed to the Trump tariff ramifications since day 1 in 2018.
Not political here, my vote will be red, but he keeps touting this and I don't know why.
It's done 1 of 2 things. It will only continue to do 1 of 2 things.
It's increased prices that small businesses and importers pay for their goods. People say "wahhh, buy stateside. Nearshore. Bring back Made in USA.Blah. Blah. Blah", but the answer to that is, they can't. You have a guy doing $5-$20m a year in sales on 30-50% margin and you tell him he needs to produce stateside. He's going to tell you he's looked all over and tried, but he can't and he will ride this international sourcing train until it rides into the ground. The margins just aren't there. Their business won't exist.
Which that's not good. In that case, then you have more monopoly by huge companies who either can afford the tariffs or can afford to invest in manufacturing here (and are probably getting tax breaks out the arse to do so), because there are less and less SMBs in the game. So, the average importers have one choice, to keep paying. To keep importing. Which means either business is down as cost have risen and they have to let people go or they raise prices to the end consumer to compensate (see 2020-2023) and people look around and wonder why inflation hit us square in the face.
Or the importers simply go elsewhere to source. There is a reason all the Chinese factories are building in Vietnam. There is a reason India is growing it's export volume to the US rapidly over the last 5 years. There is a reason people are looking to Eastern Europe for steel and aluminum production. Imports won't go down, but the dependability on China to do it will.
Maybe that's the end game. I don't know.
Either way, nobody is bringing manufacturing back to America. At least not at a macro level. We don't have a demographic of workers or an infrastructure that will ever support it. You're just going to have US manufacturers that also rely on global sourcing as a core piece of their manufacturing process. And even if they don't, they utilize someone who does. I have some buddies who run a great company. The product says made in America. Half their suppliers source component parts globally. It is what it is. And even if you were able to get it done, it's a multi-generational development. The fruits wouldn't bear for 40+ years.
We're a capitalistic country, but mainly in the digital sense and we're far too consumeristic and selfish. The ones who do invest in Made in America, do it with intent, but nearly everyone else does it with their pocket book in mind. Which will only get worse the further away we get from deep national pride.
We're not going back to heavy US manufacturing here in the states, but it does sound good as a talking point.
Not political here, my vote will be red, but he keeps touting this and I don't know why.
It's done 1 of 2 things. It will only continue to do 1 of 2 things.
It's increased prices that small businesses and importers pay for their goods. People say "wahhh, buy stateside. Nearshore. Bring back Made in USA.Blah. Blah. Blah", but the answer to that is, they can't. You have a guy doing $5-$20m a year in sales on 30-50% margin and you tell him he needs to produce stateside. He's going to tell you he's looked all over and tried, but he can't and he will ride this international sourcing train until it rides into the ground. The margins just aren't there. Their business won't exist.
Which that's not good. In that case, then you have more monopoly by huge companies who either can afford the tariffs or can afford to invest in manufacturing here (and are probably getting tax breaks out the arse to do so), because there are less and less SMBs in the game. So, the average importers have one choice, to keep paying. To keep importing. Which means either business is down as cost have risen and they have to let people go or they raise prices to the end consumer to compensate (see 2020-2023) and people look around and wonder why inflation hit us square in the face.
Or the importers simply go elsewhere to source. There is a reason all the Chinese factories are building in Vietnam. There is a reason India is growing it's export volume to the US rapidly over the last 5 years. There is a reason people are looking to Eastern Europe for steel and aluminum production. Imports won't go down, but the dependability on China to do it will.
Maybe that's the end game. I don't know.
Either way, nobody is bringing manufacturing back to America. At least not at a macro level. We don't have a demographic of workers or an infrastructure that will ever support it. You're just going to have US manufacturers that also rely on global sourcing as a core piece of their manufacturing process. And even if they don't, they utilize someone who does. I have some buddies who run a great company. The product says made in America. Half their suppliers source component parts globally. It is what it is. And even if you were able to get it done, it's a multi-generational development. The fruits wouldn't bear for 40+ years.
We're a capitalistic country, but mainly in the digital sense and we're far too consumeristic and selfish. The ones who do invest in Made in America, do it with intent, but nearly everyone else does it with their pocket book in mind. Which will only get worse the further away we get from deep national pride.
We're not going back to heavy US manufacturing here in the states, but it does sound good as a talking point.
This post was edited on 10/15/24 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:49 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
The tariffs will balance the issue out and give American business a chance to compete and win
It will help American jobs, but it will mean more people spend more money on those American goods.
In the long run this is good,but in the short run life is going to get very expensive.
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