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Liability question for MT insurance/attorneys.

Posted on 3/16/23 at 7:23 pm
Posted by Doctor Strangelove
Member since Feb 2018
2963 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 7:23 pm
I have a small commercial building and had a problem with a heater in one of the office suites. A local HVAC company sent a guy out and diagnosed the problem and they had to wait two days on the part. Wednesday morning they send a different tech out to go in the attic and replace the part. On the way up the attic access ladder the ladder breaks, he falls, breaks his ankle and calls his office. They send a co-worker out to help him and they go to Ortho clinic and indeed his ankle is broken. The ladder clearly states on a sticker that the max weight is 250 lbs. one of the tenants said this guy was 300 lbs+. I feel bad for him since it happened on my property and my ladder gave way.

Questions

1). Am I in any way liable? I would think not.
2. Who is responsible for repairs to my ladder and Sheetrock? He punched a hole in the sheet rock.
Posted by Epaminondas
The Boot
Member since Jul 2020
4178 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

one of the tenants said this guy was 300 lbs+.
It's only going to get worse.
With the broken ankle, he won't be able to do aerobics anymore.
Posted by jfw3535
South of Bunkie
Member since Mar 2008
4662 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 7:40 pm to
If he makes a claim, turn it over to your insurer and let it run its course. Actually, was this in a tenant's suite? Aren't they required to provide liability insurance per the lease and name you as an addition insured? If so, turn it over to their insurance and let it run its course. If not, your lease form sucks.
Posted by BamaCoaster
God's Gulf
Member since Apr 2016
5271 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 8:24 pm to
This is America. There is no more personal responsibility.
My small agency has helped file 4 commercial lawsuits this year, which is 4x more than last year.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25617 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

If he makes a claim, turn it over to your insurer and let it run its course. Actually, was this in a tenant's suite? Aren't they required to provide liability insurance per the lease and name you as an addition insured? If so, turn it over to their insurance and let it run its course. If not, your lease form sucks.


He's probably going to get an attorney. And he's probably going to file against everyone possible (tenant, building owner, maybe even the ladder manufacturer).
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
38787 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 8:29 pm to
Why didn't he have his own ladder?
Posted by Doctor Strangelove
Member since Feb 2018
2963 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:04 pm to
The tenants are required to have their own insurance but in this case the accident happened in an office other than where the heater was broken. The attic access is common to the whole building through a suite that is in the middle of the building. It was not the suite with the broken heater. I have insurance in the building as well. I haven’t jeans from the HVAC tech or the HVAC company and thought the company would have reached out to me by now. He should have had a ladder or went back to his office to get one since he was way to big for that ladder.
Posted by SquatchDawg
Cohutta Wilderness
Member since Sep 2012
14209 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:09 pm to
Sounds to me like a WC claim. I’m assuming the HVAC firm had WC? That should be the sole remedy for working injuries.
Mid he doesn’t have WC and was in your property working on your behalf you could be responsible for paying for the injury….just like if any uninsured contractor injures themself working on your behalf.
Posted by Doctor Strangelove
Member since Feb 2018
2963 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:21 pm to
I’m pretty sure the HVAC has WC as it’s a fairly large HVAC company. I am wondering if they are liable for repairing the damages he caused? Sheet rock, paint and replacing a broken ladder will probably be $1500+.
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
38787 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:27 pm to
Not be an a-hole but who is going to fix HVAC
Posted by SquatchDawg
Cohutta Wilderness
Member since Sep 2012
14209 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:41 pm to
You need to call them and tell them about the damages. That should be their GL…especially if the guy was too big to safely use the ladder.
Posted by Doctor Strangelove
Member since Feb 2018
2963 posts
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:43 pm to
They sent a smaller guy with a ladder to come by and put in the part for the heater. This was the same day as the accident.
Posted by Twenty 49
Shreveport
Member since Jun 2014
18770 posts
Posted on 3/17/23 at 5:38 am to
quote:

Sounds to me like a WC claim. I’m assuming the HVAC firm had WC? That should be the sole remedy for working injuries.


In LA and likely other places, workers' compensation will be the worker's sole remedy against his employer, but he can seek WC and still sue third parties such as the building owner or the ladder manufacturer. The WC insurer will often intervene in such a claim and ask that they be reimbursed for their payments out of any amount the worker gets from the third party.

As someone said above, if he sues turn it over to your liability insurer; they will handle it. Nothing you can do to stop him, and that's why you have insurance. Predicting the outcome with any certainty is almost impossible.

As for repairs to the ladder and sheetrock, you can ask the HVAC contractor about it and see where it goes. They should have liability insurance for such matters. I had something similar happen at my home, and the contractor sent someone right away to repair the ceiling. Another contractor spilled glue on my carpet, and they sent cleaners right away, then ultimately replaced the carpet.

If they resist, then you can make a claim on your own property insurance for the repairs. Depending on your deductible and how it may affect your future premiums, it may not be worth it for such a likely small claim.

Another option, if the HVAC refuses to repair, is repair it yourself and then decide if it is worth it pursue a claim for reimbursement against the HVAC or its insurer. Probably not, unless it is more expensive than I imagine, though it may be if in a location with a city court with a small claims division.
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
13577 posts
Posted on 3/17/23 at 10:22 am to
Only thing I would add to this is don’t wait until this guy sues you to report to your insurance carrier. Most standard ISO CGL policies require insureds to notify carriers of any claim or potential claim situation even if it’s not a claim yet within a certain amount of time. If you wait to turn it in and this guy doesn’t sue you until 1 day before the statute of limitations ends, your carrier might deny the claim because you didn’t report the incident you clearly knew about in a timely manner.

This is not legal advise
Posted by Motorboat
At the camp
Member since Oct 2007
22685 posts
Posted on 3/17/23 at 11:06 am to
quote:

This is America. There is no more personal responsibility.
My small agency has helped file 4 commercial lawsuits this year, which is 4x more than last year.


You sell insurance. Your job is literally to insure others' irresponsibility.
Posted by weadjust
Member since Aug 2012
15106 posts
Posted on 3/17/23 at 11:39 am to
quote:

1). Am I in any way liable? I would think not.


Maybe or Maybe Not - But you will probably find out after the lawsuit. Give notice to your insurance company and let them sort it out.

Invitees - An invitee is someone whom a premises owner or occupier, by express or implied invitation, induces or leads to come upon his premises for any lawful purpose.

General rule: a premises owner or occupier is liable to invitees who are injured by a condition (a spill on a floor; faulty stairs;) if the premises owner/occupier either knew about the hazard, or should have known had they exercised reasonable care in inspecting and keeping the premises safe.

quote:

The ladder clearly states on a sticker that the max weight is 250 lbs. one of the tenants said this guy was 300 lbs+.


Exceptions: if the invitee knew about the hazard before he was injured, he cannot recover. Also, if the hazard was “open and obvious” (for example, large gaps in a stairwell railing which were plainly visible; or a large hole in the parking lot plainly visible in broad daylight), the invitee is barred from recovering. If the invitee had traversed the hazard before, he is presumed to have knowledge of it, and therefore cannot generally recover. If the invitee fails to exercise ordinary care for his own safety, he usually cannot recover—for example, making the decision to walk down a pitch-black stairwell when he cannot see what’s there.

Is it a Werner Attic Ladder?

Werner Attic Ladder Not Recalled Despite Complaints

Produced under Werner Co. Inc, one of the nation’s top ladder manufacturers, the “Steel Easy Access Attic Ladder” caused an uproar among consumers who claimed that the ladder is prone to breaking even under loads much lighter than its weight rating. The affected units have model numbers S2208 or S2210 and are labeled with Mk 1, Mk 2, Mk 3, or Mk 4.






Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20461 posts
Posted on 3/17/23 at 8:27 pm to
quote:

Sheet rock, paint and replacing a broken ladder will probably be $1500+.


Bruh, call me crazy but id move on from this and call it a shite happens expense. In no way would I push this, or risk pissing someone off and change their mind about suing you.

For the record, I don’t think you are liable but that doesn’t mean you won’t get sued. I’d consider a $300 call to a lawyer to see how to proceed. It may be worth calling the hvac company to check on how the hurt guy was doing, just to be nice. But that may also be stupid, idk.
This post was edited on 3/17/23 at 8:28 pm
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