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Why Nuss's lackluster completion% vs Ole Miss is misleading about his overall efficiency
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:10 pm
Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT claiming that Nuss was outstanding or played anywhere near his best; he obviously missed plenty of throws and had some rough INT. What I AM claiming: Nuss's 43% completion rate paints his down-to-down, drive-to-drive performance in a much worse light than it should actually be painted. Or, in other words: Simply pointing to the 43% completion rate and saying "see, he was terrible!" is extremely misleading and lazy.
As a point of comparison, let's use Joe Burrow's 2019 performance against Auburn. Both were mid-season games, at home, against top-10 teams with elite defenses whose best unit was the DL. In that game, Burrow was 32/42 (76%!) for 321yds 1TD/1INT. Nuss, against Ole Miss, was 22/51 (43%) for 337yds 3TD/2INT. So burrow was much much better, right? Well...
The two things that completion% overlooks are 1) the length of the passes, and 2) other, worse results (sacks) that may have occurred on a pass play instead of a pass attempt.
The first needs no real explanation: Longer passes are both more valuable and harder to complete than short passes. As a general rule, you'd rather go 2/4 for 50yds than 4/4 for 25 yards; in the former case you're averaging 25yds per play, while in the latter case you're only averaging a shade over 6yds per play. As for the second: If your team ran 10 pass plays, would you rather have your QB go 6/8 for 75yds, or 6/10 for 70yds? The first guy has a higher comp%, more yards, more yards per completion, AND more yards per attempt - you'd rather have him, right? Well, not if the other 2 plays are sacks for a loss of 5yds each. Instead of taking 2 sacks and losing 10 yards, the other guy threw the ball away twice. His completion percentage went down, but overall he completed the same number of passes in the same number of plays, and his team is better off because he didn't lose yards on the plays where he didn't complete a pass.
Well, against Ole Miss, Nuss's average completion went for 15yds; Burrow's against Auburn only went 10 yards. And in the dropbacks when he wasn't actually completing a pass, Nuss was sacked 0 times (and scrambled once for 14yds). Burrow, on the other hand, was sacked three times for a total loss of 13.
When you add it all up, here's the result: Nuss produced 351yds (337+14) on 52 dropbacks, for a net average of 6.8yds per dropback. Burrow produced 308yds (321-13) on 45 dropbacks, for a net average of .... drumroll .... 6.8yds per dropback.
And THAT is why you should look beyond just completion percentage.
As a point of comparison, let's use Joe Burrow's 2019 performance against Auburn. Both were mid-season games, at home, against top-10 teams with elite defenses whose best unit was the DL. In that game, Burrow was 32/42 (76%!) for 321yds 1TD/1INT. Nuss, against Ole Miss, was 22/51 (43%) for 337yds 3TD/2INT. So burrow was much much better, right? Well...
The two things that completion% overlooks are 1) the length of the passes, and 2) other, worse results (sacks) that may have occurred on a pass play instead of a pass attempt.
The first needs no real explanation: Longer passes are both more valuable and harder to complete than short passes. As a general rule, you'd rather go 2/4 for 50yds than 4/4 for 25 yards; in the former case you're averaging 25yds per play, while in the latter case you're only averaging a shade over 6yds per play. As for the second: If your team ran 10 pass plays, would you rather have your QB go 6/8 for 75yds, or 6/10 for 70yds? The first guy has a higher comp%, more yards, more yards per completion, AND more yards per attempt - you'd rather have him, right? Well, not if the other 2 plays are sacks for a loss of 5yds each. Instead of taking 2 sacks and losing 10 yards, the other guy threw the ball away twice. His completion percentage went down, but overall he completed the same number of passes in the same number of plays, and his team is better off because he didn't lose yards on the plays where he didn't complete a pass.
Well, against Ole Miss, Nuss's average completion went for 15yds; Burrow's against Auburn only went 10 yards. And in the dropbacks when he wasn't actually completing a pass, Nuss was sacked 0 times (and scrambled once for 14yds). Burrow, on the other hand, was sacked three times for a total loss of 13.
When you add it all up, here's the result: Nuss produced 351yds (337+14) on 52 dropbacks, for a net average of 6.8yds per dropback. Burrow produced 308yds (321-13) on 45 dropbacks, for a net average of .... drumroll .... 6.8yds per dropback.
And THAT is why you should look beyond just completion percentage.
This post was edited on 10/16/24 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:14 pm to LifeAquatic
quote:
As a general rule, you'd rather go 2/4 for 50yds than 4/4 for 25 yards; in the former case you're averaging 25yds per play, while in the latter case you're only averaging a shade over 6yds per pla
you need to re-math this
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:21 pm to LifeAquatic
Look you wasted a lot of time posting that.
For 3 quarters and about 11 minutes, Nuss was TERRIBLE. Had we lost, it would have been very largely on him.
BUT….
He stepped up and was incredible on the last drive in regulation and OT. And that’s what good players do. They find a way to get it done when they absolutely HAVE TO.
But don’t act his stats were misleading going into the last drive of regulation. He was flat out bad until that point.
For 3 quarters and about 11 minutes, Nuss was TERRIBLE. Had we lost, it would have been very largely on him.
BUT….
He stepped up and was incredible on the last drive in regulation and OT. And that’s what good players do. They find a way to get it done when they absolutely HAVE TO.
But don’t act his stats were misleading going into the last drive of regulation. He was flat out bad until that point.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:22 pm to LifeAquatic
I'd rather my QB not go 22/51 and also 4/16 on balls thrown over 20 yards while also throwing 2 Ints. We own, I'm happy we won, but if we lost the blame would fit solely on Nuss' shoulders. Let's hope that he learned from this game, but 3 years later he still hasn't learned to stop throwing off his back foot.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:22 pm to LifeAquatic
WY way to much to read.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:22 pm to LifeAquatic
definitely was not misleading
-Nuss missed open throws deep
-Nuss missed open throws deep when guys were open underneath
-Lets not ever compare Nuss to Burrow
-Nuss missed open throws deep
-Nuss missed open throws deep when guys were open underneath
-Lets not ever compare Nuss to Burrow
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:31 pm to Pikes Peak Tiger
quote:Not sure I'd agree with "terrible" given the competition he was up against and the lack of running game support, but he certainly wasn't great leading into the final drive:
For 3 quarters and about 11 minutes, Nuss was TERRIBLE
Pre-final drive: 17/39, 256 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs
Final drive + OT: 5/12, 81 yards, 2 TDs
Total: 22/51, 337 yards, 3 TDs, 2 INTs
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:38 pm to LifeAquatic
Come on dude. It’s ok to say he had a bad 3 quarters of a game but came through when he had to. You don’t need to go through all this to elevate Nuss somehow. We are ALL rooting for him and know he’s a good QB.
Just let this game go and let’s move on. He’s gonna be fine.
Just let this game go and let’s move on. He’s gonna be fine.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:48 pm to LifeAquatic
That Auburn D-Line was sick
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:50 pm to LifeAquatic
quote:
1) the length of the passes
I read that LSU threw more 20+ yard passes than we have ever thrown in a game.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:56 pm to iamandykeim
quote:
Pre-final drive: 17/39, 256 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs
Thats TERRIBLE. If we lost this game, we would point to this being why.
quote:
Total: 22/51, 337 yards, 3 TDs, 2 INTs
Thats 43% completion on the night. Do you realize how bad you have to be to not complete 50% of throws? Still routing for him, but it's okay to call out bad play when you see it.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 12:56 pm to LifeAquatic
I saw a lot of drops where Nuss hit people in the hands. How many drops were there? I think his previous pass percentage was inflated by short passes behind the line of scrimmage. Burrow had a bad offensive line. I don’t care that they won an award. Burrow and Clyde made them look better than they were.
Factor that into your math.
Factor that into your math.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:08 pm to LifeAquatic
Not reading all that crap
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:15 pm to saltytiger2
Nothing to see here.
Tigers won. Move along
Tigers won. Move along
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:19 pm to LifeAquatic
Dude Nuss was awful until the last 5 minutes or so in the 4th quarter
I hope you didn’t spend too much time on this
I hope you didn’t spend too much time on this
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:24 pm to LifeAquatic
He was bad most of the game
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:27 pm to Lester Earl
quote:I hope this is because you didn't actually read the post.
definitely was not misleading
-Nuss missed open throws deep
-Nuss missed open throws deep when guys were open underneath
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:29 pm to TN Tygah
quote:
Dude Nuss was awful until the last 5 minutes or so in the 4th quarter
Yeah, we watched different games. The scheme was dictated for downfield passing. Take away the bobbles and Nuss ends the night with over 400 years and a couple more TDs.
There are some who just want Nuss replaced with a "running quarterback" and will never accept the fact that Nuss is actually within striking distance of the Heisman.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 1:32 pm to LifeAquatic
quote:
When you add it all up, here's the result: Nuss produced 351yds (337+14) on 52 dropbacks, for a net average of 6.8yds per dropback. Burrow produced 308yds (321-13) on 45 dropbacks, for a net average of .... drumroll .... 6.8yds per dropback.
Another thing that may have been in play was for whatever reason Nuss was pushing the ball downfield. I was curious why several times he threw long low percentage throws as opposed to using the RB checkdown that was open a lot. I was curious if this was a focus point on the offense this week, i.e. throwing short yard checks too much.
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