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Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:46 am to RATeamWannabe
quote:
I think this isn't talked about nearly enough. LSU is the team that Alabama schedules a bye week for.
This is strictly done logistically. Saban has said, many times, that he wants to get as far as he can without an open date. This week is what he sees as the line. If Ms State fell on this week we would be open before them. We dont schedule that because Oh my god we have to beat LSU.
If that were the case, we'd schedule the open before Auburn. The ONLY reason it isn't before Auburn is because it's too late in the year.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:48 am to koLSU86
quote:
LSU has had a total of 18 OL commits since 2014.
5 Stars: 1 4 Stars: 10 3 Stars: 7 Average Grade : .9035
Alabama has had a total of 22 OL commits since 2014.
5 Stars: 3 4 Stars: 14 3 Stars: 3 Average Grade : .9357
So, you're going to tell me that an average grade of .0322 makes that much difference on an offensive line? I would say that this somewhat proves the coaching differences on the offensive side of the ball.
Here's where the difference really lies:
22 Bama recruits - never mind the ranking of each
18 LSU recruits - never mind the ranking of each
Of LSU's 18, how many are still on the roster? Let me help you out by listing who is not:
Domond
Clapp - NFL
Teuhema
Weathersby NFL
Okeke
Brown
W. Allen
Ingram
Seth Stewart
That's a 50% attrition which is terrible. You're not even gonna sniff a championship with those numbers.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 11:50 am
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:54 am to RATeamWannabe
Auburn is our biggest game. regardless of records. the biggest. It's just not feasable to have the open date that week but that's the biggest and it aint close.
Average fans can tell you how many we lost straight to Auburn during our sanctions. SIX. fkn 6. Nobody, including me can tell you how many we lost to LSU. I guess 4 or 5? I know we won 02 and lost 03, dont remember 04 but I think it was a loss. 05 was a close loss I believe and I know 06 and 07 were losses.
Average fans can tell you how many we lost straight to Auburn during our sanctions. SIX. fkn 6. Nobody, including me can tell you how many we lost to LSU. I guess 4 or 5? I know we won 02 and lost 03, dont remember 04 but I think it was a loss. 05 was a close loss I believe and I know 06 and 07 were losses.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 11:55 am to koLSU86
It's not just recruiting, it's retention. Let's just look at how many blue chips (4 and 5 stars) LSU and Bama have brought in and retained, according to 247 composite.
First, LSU:
2015 (Seniors)
OG Teuhama 5-star TRANSFER
OT Weathersby 4-star EARLY ENTRANT
OT Valentine-Okeke 4-star TRANSFER
2016 (Juniors)
OG Campbell 4-star
OT Allen 4-star TRANSFER
2017 (Sophomores)
OT Deculus 4-star
OG Ingram 4-star SUSPENDED
OG Charles 4-star
2018 (Freshmen)
DT Hines 4-star
OT Traore (JUCO) 4-star
DT Rosenthal 4-star
That's 1 5-star and 10 4-stars recruited, but the senior and junior classes are all gone save Campbell, who isn't in the LSU two-deep. That's spectacularly poor retention. LSU has just 6 4-stars and 0 5-stars on the roster. On the two-deep, LSU starts two 4-stars and has just five 4-stars on the two deep.
Contrast that with Bama:
2015
Cotton 4-star
Pettibon 4-star
Womack 4-star
Kennedy 4-star TRANSFERRED
2016
Williams 5-star
Baldwin 4-star TRANSFERRED
Brown 4-star
Owens 4-star
Lashley 4-star
2017
Leatherwood 5-star
Wills 4-star
Randolph 4-star
Baker 4-star
2018
Okiyar 4-star
Brown 4-star
That's 2 5-stars and 15 4-stars recruited with only TWO players transferring out. They have 2 5-stars in the starting lineup and the rest of the two-deep is nothing but 4-stars.
They have a massive gap in both talent and experience. Though LSU did crack that facade last year, outrecruiting Bama in 2018, which is why they already have two players from that class in the two-deep opposed to 0 for Bama.
First, LSU:
2015 (Seniors)
OG Teuhama 5-star TRANSFER
OT Weathersby 4-star EARLY ENTRANT
OT Valentine-Okeke 4-star TRANSFER
2016 (Juniors)
OG Campbell 4-star
OT Allen 4-star TRANSFER
2017 (Sophomores)
OT Deculus 4-star
OG Ingram 4-star SUSPENDED
OG Charles 4-star
2018 (Freshmen)
DT Hines 4-star
OT Traore (JUCO) 4-star
DT Rosenthal 4-star
That's 1 5-star and 10 4-stars recruited, but the senior and junior classes are all gone save Campbell, who isn't in the LSU two-deep. That's spectacularly poor retention. LSU has just 6 4-stars and 0 5-stars on the roster. On the two-deep, LSU starts two 4-stars and has just five 4-stars on the two deep.
Contrast that with Bama:
2015
Cotton 4-star
Pettibon 4-star
Womack 4-star
Kennedy 4-star TRANSFERRED
2016
Williams 5-star
Baldwin 4-star TRANSFERRED
Brown 4-star
Owens 4-star
Lashley 4-star
2017
Leatherwood 5-star
Wills 4-star
Randolph 4-star
Baker 4-star
2018
Okiyar 4-star
Brown 4-star
That's 2 5-stars and 15 4-stars recruited with only TWO players transferring out. They have 2 5-stars in the starting lineup and the rest of the two-deep is nothing but 4-stars.
They have a massive gap in both talent and experience. Though LSU did crack that facade last year, outrecruiting Bama in 2018, which is why they already have two players from that class in the two-deep opposed to 0 for Bama.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 12:03 pm to Baloo
Exactly what Baloo said. You have to look at our attrition.... It has been what kills us. Every year 1 or 2 players leave early for us and don't even get drafted.....and every year, 1 or 2 player stay for thier Sr. year for Bama that would have been drafted in the first 3 rounds.
To me, until one of those stops, we will always struggle to beat them.
To me, until one of those stops, we will always struggle to beat them.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 11/13/18 at 12:41 pm to Abikaasa_Posti_Teel
IMO it's a bit of a lot of things.
Bama has an advantage on signing day (higher rated players)
Bama does a better job of retaining and developing OLmen.
Bama does a better job with strength and conditioning with their OLmen.
All you have to do is just look at Bama players vs LSU players on both lines of scrimmage to see the difference in strength/conditioning and maturity.
It is literally like watching grown arse men playing against sloppy high school kids. Their lineman just look different physically. Our guys usually carry flabby waistlines and are just weaker.
Bama has an advantage on signing day (higher rated players)
Bama does a better job of retaining and developing OLmen.
Bama does a better job with strength and conditioning with their OLmen.
All you have to do is just look at Bama players vs LSU players on both lines of scrimmage to see the difference in strength/conditioning and maturity.
It is literally like watching grown arse men playing against sloppy high school kids. Their lineman just look different physically. Our guys usually carry flabby waistlines and are just weaker.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 12:44 pm to Tiger1988
quote:
I’ve posted 3 similar threads but people like Tiger Ree and Pirate among others try to spin it.
You listed defensive players as offensive lineman. That is why no one takes you seriously
Posted on 11/13/18 at 12:58 pm to koLSU86
jcole4lsu had an excellent point showing that, yes, 0.0322 DOES make a huge difference, but he missed an even bigger point. Drop Bama's bottom 4 scores so that each school has the same number of recruits, and the difference in average will skyrocket. Oh, and one more factor: Bama had 4 more recruits. That's 4 more chances of getting a stud.
All you've done here is advance the argument the Bama is much more talented. But, hey, let's say you might be right. Then let's go get 5 classes with 22 OL rated at least an average of 0.9347, and let's find out!
BayouCowboy makes yet another good point: 10 years of combined experience for LSU's starters; 16 years for Bama's. Bama's guys are starting more than one year later than LSU's. Obviously they are one year better, too.
All you've done here is advance the argument the Bama is much more talented. But, hey, let's say you might be right. Then let's go get 5 classes with 22 OL rated at least an average of 0.9347, and let's find out!
BayouCowboy makes yet another good point: 10 years of combined experience for LSU's starters; 16 years for Bama's. Bama's guys are starting more than one year later than LSU's. Obviously they are one year better, too.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:04 pm to koLSU86
quote:
So, you're going to tell me that an average grade of .0322 makes that much difference on an offensive line?
I'm going to tell you that having 18 commits instead of 22 commits is a big difference and that having 7 of those 18 commits be 3 stars instead of only 3 be 3 stars is a big difference.
The fact that Alabama has 6 more OL that are 4 star or above talents is all you need to know. This isn't rocket science.
Their starters are mostly 4 stars with some 5 stars mixed in. Our starters are mostly 4 stars with some 3 stars mixed in. Our depth o linemen are 3 stars. Theirs are 4 stars.
Jesus Christ, people. The level of tard on this board is baffling.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:09 pm to TouchdownTony
quote:
This is strictly done logistically. Saban has said, many times, that he wants to get as far as he can without an open date. This week is what he sees as the line. If Ms State fell on this week we would be open before them. We dont schedule that because Oh my god we have to beat LSU.
Bama schedules their open date before LSU EVERY year for the last seven, at least, even though we don't always play them the same week.
LSU schedules its open week because of Bama, and Bama schedules their open week because of LSU.
Edit: I just checked, and we do indeed play the 10th week of every season. Maybe it is just a coincidence. In any event, recent results show that if Bama is doing it to prepare for LSU, they needn't.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:10 pm to Lakeboy7
“Les Ball”
Les ball has been gone from LSU for bout 30+ games. I’m wondering when we might release him from his scapegoat duties for the failures of the LSU O??
Our offensive production 10 games into this season is at its lowest level I have seen in at least the last 10 years. It’s lower than what the OC we fired at the beginning of this season produced and it’s far lower than what our offense in 2015 produced.
We have the 11th best offense in the SEC. Coach O dealt it and he needs to own it.
Les ball has been gone from LSU for bout 30+ games. I’m wondering when we might release him from his scapegoat duties for the failures of the LSU O??
Our offensive production 10 games into this season is at its lowest level I have seen in at least the last 10 years. It’s lower than what the OC we fired at the beginning of this season produced and it’s far lower than what our offense in 2015 produced.
We have the 11th best offense in the SEC. Coach O dealt it and he needs to own it.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:28 pm to koLSU86
Stated differently, assuming those 5 stars are all with their respective teams and starting, followed by the 4 stars, 60% of Bama's O line has 5 star talent starting for it.
Meanwhile, only 20% of LSU's O line has 5 star talent.
That's a huge, bigly difference. Thanks for using facts to support the opposite position.
Meanwhile, only 20% of LSU's O line has 5 star talent.
That's a huge, bigly difference. Thanks for using facts to support the opposite position.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:42 pm to koLSU86
quote:
LSU has had a total of 18 OL commits since 2014.
How many of those 4 & 5 star recruits are still on our roster...
Posted on 11/13/18 at 1:48 pm to koLSU86
Let's compare the 1st seven for each team. 5 starters and the best 2 backups. You can't tell me our line wouldn't be better with 2 more 5 stars in the starting rotation.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 2:20 pm to Baloo
This is one of the better posts I've seen in a while. Thanks for the info!
Posted on 11/13/18 at 2:29 pm to koLSU86
quote:
5 Stars: 1 4 Stars: 10 3 Stars: 7 Average Grade : .9035
So the obvious question should be, Who is the O line coach?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 2:36 pm to Lakeboy7
Lakeboy, you make a good point. Offensive tackles need to be longer in arm length, athletic, and have great footwork. We tend to get big kids who make nice Guards. Also, Bama OLine makes up for any mistakes by holding, and the refs NEVER call it on them.
Bama DLine is deep, strong, fast and play with great technique. We used to have this too. Not sure how we have gotten away from that.
Bama DLine is deep, strong, fast and play with great technique. We used to have this too. Not sure how we have gotten away from that.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 2:41 pm to koLSU86
The OL is a problem. If you can’t see that you are blind.
Now, if you want to have the discussion of whether the issue is talent, experience, or coaching, that’s fine. Then you can decide if the issues are related to this staff or previous staff members.
But what you can’t do is point to recruiting rankings and say, “it’s not talent”. That’s amazingly simple minded.
Now, if you want to have the discussion of whether the issue is talent, experience, or coaching, that’s fine. Then you can decide if the issues are related to this staff or previous staff members.
But what you can’t do is point to recruiting rankings and say, “it’s not talent”. That’s amazingly simple minded.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 2:57 pm to RATeamWannabe
This! BAMA knows that SEC west depends on beating LSU. But that may not be the most significant reason. Just ask Buggs, Collins, Smith, big Cam, Moses, etc.
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