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re: Skycam view of OL in pass protection

Posted on 9/6/22 at 8:10 am to
Posted by Pahnew
Member since Apr 2008
5372 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 8:10 am to
I agree OL not as bad as I originally thought watching the game live. The problem on many cases is pre-snap reads. Daniels has to see pre-snap the safety, corner, linebacker up close to the line. If he blitzes, what is my hotroute. You have to envision what will happen before the play starts.

Pre-Snap:


Play:

Completely unblocked pass rusher, was a sack. Should have been, Slant is open right where the blitzer on the edge came from.
Posted by mtb010
San Antonio
Member since Sep 2009
4388 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 8:20 am to
The QB/OC have to have the field vision and awareness that they are sending more bodies then you have blockers and you have to change the scheme and adjust, or they will eat your lunch all game.
Posted by Art Vandelay
LOUISIANA
Member since Sep 2005
10702 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 8:44 am to
couple of those plays show Oline blocking no one and leaving rushers unblocked. Who’s making the pass protection calls.
Posted by Lapaz
Member since Dec 2018
540 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 8:47 am to
The first series got inside the 10, but it was almost entirely incomplete passes, scrambles and penalties on FSU, and that should’ve alerted Dembrock immediately, because you don’t want to count on that all game.

2nd series were 2 short passes that didn’t give the WRs a chance to get YACs so they netted 1 yard and then a sack.

3rd series was better, but still half of it was short scrambles. If no WRs were open, then Dembrock might’ve realized the routes could be a problem or Daniels wasn’t being patient enough.

4th series out of halftime was incomplete, no gain and 3 yard pass. This suggested we had made poor adjustments.

5th series started terrible, but FSU bailed us out with a roughing passer and pass interference penalty. Then finally Daniels started throwing the ball with 3 good passes. It’s bad coordinating to take most of a game to make proper adjustments.

Also, I’m not sure what your definition is of “wide open”, because that pass that Boutte should’ve been able to catch on the crosser at the end zone was a tight squeeze. The safety would’ve laid him out as soon as he caught it. An All American and a good NFL WR should catch that, but it would’ve been a tough catch. The pass had to be drilled to get it in between the CB and the safety and Boutte would’ve hit him almost immediately. That’s not what I consider wide open. There were probably receivers more open, since Boutte was being doubled.

I agree that the defense was also a problem and the special teams were the worst.

The offense and defense got better, but the time it took to make proper adjustments was bad.
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
20024 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:04 am to
All those pics show Jayden needing to get the ball out faster. He didn’t need to be running around all night.

I think he has some great tools and can improve. The first drive or two could have had some things go better for him to help him with rhythm
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22157 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:09 am to
This is what I was talking about on Sunday night. Daniels had trouble reading the defense and finding his hot route on some of the pressures, and on others he just missed open guys.



On this one, both outside backers are coming and the safeties are standing at the line to gain on third down. You have to recognize that and know the ball has to come out quick to Boutte and let him try to make a guy miss to pick up the first down. This ball should have been out of his hands to the slant as soon as he hit his back foot.



This one is not as egregious, but the ball could have come out to Boutte on the curl on the sideline. The DB's hips are turned. If he gets rid of it now and takes the hit we pick up 15 yards. You also have Taylor running a post with a LB on his hip and no safety on that side of the field.



This one is bad. You have one DB with two receivers on the right side of the field and a crosser running free right in front of him.
Posted by Lapaz
Member since Dec 2018
540 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:25 am to
Those pics indicate that Daniels was making Denbrock look bad. All 3 of those should’ve been positive pass plays. I hate to say it, but I think Brennan would’ve completed all 3 of those passes. It’s a shame he’s no longer on the team. I know his lack of mobility is undesirable, but Brady has done pretty well despite lack of mobility. Either Daniels needs to change his mindset to scramble more than running, or I hope Nuss gets a chance, because I think a mobile QB is better than a running QB. WRs don’t give up on plays as readily with a scrambling QB.
Posted by bgtiger
Prairieville
Member since Dec 2004
11428 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:30 am to
My biggest gripe is the blocking was horrible, but we compounded that problem with routes 15-20 yds downfield. You have to have time for those routes to get open. This is the only “game planning” issue I was pissed at.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
12903 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:34 am to
quote:

This one is bad. You have one DB with two receivers on the right side of the field and a crosser running free right in front of him.
yeah, lot of bad. some good though.

The Good:
- that's a helluva gap with lots of room. If that gets you a first down, you take it. I think it did if I'm remembering the play correctly.

- He read the rush correctly and moved in the pocket (without panic, under control) where if passing he could have had time.

The Bad:
- both pictures, look where ball is. He has to cock to even start his release. But the timing of the pictures could be very misleading. However, this has been noted as being one of his issues which is why I bothered to mention it here.

- If that's not a rub or clear out having to receivers there together it is a huge issue (referring to the left). If it is, which it likely is, he knows where to be looking and the timing of it. He moved in the pocket correctly to buy time and is not under pressure at the time of breaking out. That ball should be gone already.

- Over on the right, which you are referring to, is really bad. KTaylor is open long before he had to move (woulda been hit though). He's still open after he moves. He's still open as Boutte breaks and gets a step and a half for a likely TD. Then he pulls it and runs it. There's 2 "gifts" there, 1 risky (on the left outside the hash), and 1 TD after buying time.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 9:36 am
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43851 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:38 am to




This is a great example of Daniels missing a read. They have 7 in the box matching LSU hat on hat. I assume his hot read is the slant from his slot receiver to the right. The moment that linebacker came off the edge the ball should have gone right to the spot he vacated. Easy throw and easy first down.






Huge bust by the Oline. LSU has the numbers, but for whatever reason the RG and RT slide left and are blocking 1, while the DE is matched on a TE.






LSU has the numbers, again. RG and RT slide left, again, and block 1, again. DE matched on TE, again.






Line does well enough here, but Daniels misses TWO open receivers. Boutte is about to come wide open across the middle and the middle out to the right has no one within 10 yards of him.

Bad QB play.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 9:48 am
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22157 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 9:45 am to
quote:

- that's a helluva gap with lots of room. If that gets you a first down, you take it. I think it did if I'm remembering the play correctly.



It was 2nd and 18 and OP said the play resulted for a 8 yard gain. I know Boutte played like shite, but he's one of the best WR's in the country with the ball in his hands after the catch. I'd much rather that ball go to Boutte who is running towards space. If he makes the first guy miss he might score from there.

Getting the ball out on time and in rhythm is always preferable, even if your QB can pick up a few yards with his legs.
Posted by 5Alive
With Your Moms
Member since Jul 2009
7661 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:09 am to
Putting people up and close to the line does not constitute a blitz. They can show 6 all they want and they rushed 4 and 3 except for the first screen shot which of course is the one u used. I missed that one.

But upon further review what u didn’t see or refused to see is 1. immediate pressure off that blitz and that robber/spy. If he throws that “hot” it’s picked or he’s getting crushed..Boutte doesn’t even has his head around yet. The TE matchup would have been preferable here. We don’t know what was called here if Boutte ran the hot and the TE didn’t. As it seems like the TE was his first read on this play.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43851 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:12 am to
quote:

But upon further review what u didn’t see or refused to see is 1. immediate pressure off that blitz and that robber/spy. If he throws that “hot” it’s picked or he’s getting crushed..Boutte doesn’t even has his head around yet. The TE matchup would have been preferable here. We don’t know what was called here if Boutte ran the hot and the TE didn’t. As it seems like the TE was his first read on this play.


This is dead wrong. Boutte is running a slant, if Daniels sees it Boutte is ready for it when it comes out. Slants are often thrown before the WR is looking. They're a timing route.

Also, if it's thrown on time he's well underneath the safety and well wide of the linebacker. He doesn't "get crushed", he makes the catch and easily picks up another 7-8 yards before he's tackled.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 10:14 am
Posted by 5Alive
With Your Moms
Member since Jul 2009
7661 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 4:04 pm to
Upon further review I just watched the play and Boutte ran a whip/zig route not even a slant. Thats why he wasnt looking just as I said. Now that being said Mason Taylor is motioning before the play about the blitzing back and still ran up the field instead of sitting down. They also checked to something before the snap.
Posted by tiggah1981
Winterfell
Member since Aug 2007
17045 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

As a qb, you have to recognize the blitz and get it to the hot rote in those situations. It’s not all on the blockers.


late to the thread but yes, this

kid has happy feet, once he made up his mind up on running he’s done looking downfield

fsu was doing a good job of finding the open man

Posted by TrouserTrout
Member since Nov 2017
6425 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

If Daniels can’t read defensive alignments pre-snap, and make check off calls, he will either get sacked multiple times or he will tuck it and run all game long like he did vs. FSU. A QB as your leading ball carrier and rusher will not cut it when it comes to conference play.
Wish I could upvote your post more than once. You are spot on with this.

Wonder if this is why Boutte was so pissed off and uninterested. Maybe he was recognizing things he thought the QB should. It would make sense.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
12903 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

It was 2nd and 18 and OP said the play resulted for a 8 yard gain. I know Boutte played like shite, but he's one of the best WR's in the country with the ball in his hands after the catch. I'd much rather that ball go to Boutte who is running towards space. If he makes the first guy miss he might score from there.
copy that. I was thinking it was a whole other play/situation.

My poor memory aside, it's good he can take advantage of those. But well before that gap opened up, there was one open receiver, one coming open, and a third Boutte getting a step just as that pressure up the middle forced him left.

So the idea that he pulls it too quick, at least on that play, is false. He didn't see it. And if he saw it he doesn't believe his lying eyes. And the latter is worse than the former. That's what I was trying, poorly, to convey.

He did everything right except pull the trigger: eluded rush, kept his body positioned relatively correct, had eyes upfield, WRs did their job. He was looking at two open people- and didn't throw it. THEN he ran.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22157 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

He did everything right except pull the trigger: eluded rush, kept his body positioned relatively correct, had eyes upfield, WRs did their job. He was looking at two open people- and didn't throw it. THEN he ran.


I agree with this. I was pleasantly surprised with his feel in the pocket. His internal clock was right on. He had an excellent feel for pressure and showed an ability to navigate the pocket. He just needs to take the next step and avoid the pressure with the intent to pass rather than the intent to run.
Posted by RizerJ
Member since Dec 2016
69 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:40 pm to
Great post! Some observations and things I am seeing as a fan...and this is just things I hope to see improvement in. While JD scrambled and made something out of nothing often, could there have been better reads and plays?

1st set of pics....presnap, 3 defenders on left side handled 1 on 1 by OT, OL, and RB. C is occupied by MLB, and RG and RT headed up by DL each. Free man on outside coming off right side. Hot read to the slant on right side? May have caught it and split defenders, or at least positive yards.

2nd set of pics....Simple rush with S blitz off right side. Not sure if Mason Taylor chipped FSU DE, but that DE easily beat Wire.

3rd set of pics....again, head up 1 on 1 assignments. We had a hat on a hat. How did 70 end up behind Cambell? Looks like he is blocking 66, not the DE. If we have 1 on 1 at presnap, why did we end up double teaming DL and leaving Verse on Kole Taylor? Even then, he got free of Taylor before Goodwin made it across the formation to help. I am confused on the OL call here.

4th set of pics....How did we get beat on the double team in the middle? Impressed by RG handling 1 on 1s though. Even with Wire getting beat deep, I agree that we had the dig in the middle coming wide open. Side step to the left and hit that WR for good yardage.

Blocked FG Pic....agreed. Blown assignment by Wire. Who was to his left? Kyle Taylor? I ask because Brian Kelly said they made adjustments for the extra point later to address this. I need to go check that because I hope he changed out Wire, not just the TE.

6th set of pics....It looks like Wire helped down on the DT, leaving Verse to the RB 1 on 1. DTs look like they ran a twist in the middle, and Wire is left looking like his girlfriend left him at the Prom. Wouldn't you want him to take Verse and leave Josh to block the potential blitzing LB or S coming off the right, if they blitz? I think it was clear #4 on FSU was spying Jayden, not blitzing much. So, we often had 3 blocking the DTs, with an eye on blitzers coming in on adjustments from their side.

From your selections of clips, I am most concerned that we don't seem to be pounding the middle with routes. We did this religiously with Burrow in 2019, and he spent much of that year under duress. But, Brady and Ensminger called plays that complimented our weak pass protection, and Burrow looked for routes that compensated for that deficiency. Be ready for short routes to keep ball moving, but have your deep shot routes in mind if protection is there.

OVERALL....I still have faith in these guys. I know this year will be tough...Completely new support staff, coaching staff, and half the team wasn't at LSU last year. BUT, I like Kelly's approach to bring in LA guys, who want to play hard for their home team.

I think we still see a culture in college football where players know their value and don't want to risk costing themselves millions in the NFL draft. If Maason Smith were in his draft year, look how much he may have cost himself on a freak injury. I understand their position, but I hate this part of the game now, as a fan. Don't think it will change, though, so gotta live with it. Younger guys just need to be ready to go!

Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11115 posts
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:46 pm to
I'm guessing they had an inordinarily high amount of scripted plays they were dead set on running. Too bad because they got rolling in the second half it was just too late. My guess is you'll see improvement offensively for the next several weeks.
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