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SEC Response in Alabama Litigation (Analysis)
Posted on 10/14/26 at 9:55 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 9:55 am
Admins--There was a thread that touched upon this. This one goes into the actual details of the response brief.
TL; DR; NL. The SEC brief is weak on many points, but the basketball recruiting and Wade's comments did not help us.
The SEC responded to Liz's motion to dismiss. Here are some highlights--
The lawyers then turn to basketball --
They then mention international basketball players whose "eligibility remains in question," then quote Wade--
The SEC concedes that they could just throw LSU out, which, as mentioned in a prior post, is far and away Murrill's best argument. But then it says:
Therefore--
The threat, they say, is that --
This seems pretty weak, because none of the defendants were a party to the Louisiana litigation, but the SEC tries to connect the dots--
They point out that Liz filed an amicus brief (a brief that a non-party can file to help educate the court), and that she sat at counsels' table for the players.
This is a very weird argument to me for someone claiming to be protecting their First Amendment rights. In essence, they are saying that their rights are threatened because the Louisiana AG exercised hers. I think you can blow them out of the water on this in a reply brief. If that is their best argument, they should lose, in my view.
Then they move to mootness. For the NL, a matter is "moot" when there is no longer any reason for a court to decide it. In this case, the good guys (showing my bias here) argued that this whole issue was moot when LSU declined to roster the players.
Here, I think the SEC might fare a little better, in part because of basketball and Wade.
The counter is obvious. Come see the court if that happens, because it has not yet. But it did not help the cause that they were able to inject basketball and that quote into it.
As for the argument that LSU might interfere in efforts to throw it out of the conference, I find the argument paper-thin. They say that LSU affirmed the threat of intereference by saying in briefs that it should not be thrown out. That is almost dumb. Saying that you should't be terminated is a far cry from saying you are going to try to interfere (somehow illegally) with the vote to do so. Again, I think they get kicked pretty hard in the reply brief on this one.
The SEC then says that the matter is live (not moot) because the SEC did not call the vote.
Just as an aside, I think the following excerpt is a terrible sentence on the same point and should have been rewritten. I would not have filed a brief that used this weird (to me) sentence structure. But that's just me. There is jsut too much going on there. And its a topic sentence, which makes it worse.
There are some related ripeness arguments. As I have always understood it, mootness means it is no longer a dispute, and ripeness means it is not yet a dispute. The ripeness arguments in this case are largely a repeat of mootness.
The SEC then moves into the sovereign immunity arguments. I hated this issue when I studied Ex Parte Young under the stern tutelage of Professor Pugh. I am going to leave it at that. I do not see any real advantage to either side in these arguments, although it may be appellate fodder.
There is a long section on personal jurisdiction. For the NL, this is the power of a court to force a particular individual to appear before it. For the lawyers, think back to your hazy first year memories of International Shoe under Bockrath. The only notable part here is that they accuse Liz of committing an "intentional tort." That is a little strong. And just for the record, they did not mention the billboards.
There is then the argument that the SEC cannot pursue a civil rights claim here (1983) because it is, effectively, the State. The civil rights statute in question protects against state action, not private action. There is a long argument here about whether public universities are the "State." FWIW, I looked at this under the 11th amendment in another case and concluded that they are. But that was a few years ago.
This is their take--
That has surface appeal. I am going to have to think about that one.
They also point out that Vanderbilt, a private university, is a member of the SEC. No surprise there.
There is more to these First Amendment arguments, but they are rather abstruse.
My overall take. The SEC scores a couple of points, but 12 out of 15 rounds go to LSU (to use a boxing analogy).
That's just my take. Also, the SEC brief is way too long at forty-one pages.
Have to do actual work now. Excuse any typos. I will try to clean it up later.
TL; DR; NL. The SEC brief is weak on many points, but the basketball recruiting and Wade's comments did not help us.
The SEC responded to Liz's motion to dismiss. Here are some highlights--
quote:
This case addresses a broader dispute: Defendants’ complete lack of institutional control over LSU’s athletic programs, their ongoing defiance of the Conference’s Professionalism Rules, and the very real threat—reiterated in Defendants’ briefing—that Defendants will interfere with any effort to terminate LSU’s membership in the Conference.
quote:
LSU’s eleventh-hour decision not to include two former professional athletes on its football roster does not moot the SEC’s claims. Nor does it matter that Defendants did not block or interfere with the September 10th meeting.
quote:
LSU continues to flout those Rules and principles.
The lawyers then turn to basketball --
quote:
LSU has openly recruited former NBA player RJ Luis Jr., has allowed him to practice with LSU’s men’s basketball team, and has refused to publicly and definitively state that he will not be included on LSU’s basketball roster, which is not due for several more weeks.
They then mention international basketball players whose "eligibility remains in question," then quote Wade--
quote:
“We’re going to be unapologetic about it. This is who we are. This is what we’re doing. This is the path that we charted. We’re going to go down it, and that's fine.”
The SEC concedes that they could just throw LSU out, which, as mentioned in a prior post, is far and away Murrill's best argument. But then it says:
quote:
What Defendants do notsay in their brief—much less through any sworn affidavit or declaration—is that they will refrain from interfering with the SEC’s exercise of its undisputed right to terminate LSU’s membership in the Conference.
Therefore--
quote:
Defendants are trying to have it both ways.
The threat, they say, is that --
quote:
Defendants have already shown they will use
Louisiana’s courts to stop the Conference from governing itself.
This seems pretty weak, because none of the defendants were a party to the Louisiana litigation, but the SEC tries to connect the dots--
quote:
Working hand in glove with the Pyburn plaintiffs, they helped obtain state-court orders that bar the Conference from enforcing the Professionalism Rules.
They point out that Liz filed an amicus brief (a brief that a non-party can file to help educate the court), and that she sat at counsels' table for the players.
This is a very weird argument to me for someone claiming to be protecting their First Amendment rights. In essence, they are saying that their rights are threatened because the Louisiana AG exercised hers. I think you can blow them out of the water on this in a reply brief. If that is their best argument, they should lose, in my view.
Then they move to mootness. For the NL, a matter is "moot" when there is no longer any reason for a court to decide it. In this case, the good guys (showing my bias here) argued that this whole issue was moot when LSU declined to roster the players.
Here, I think the SEC might fare a little better, in part because of basketball and Wade.
quote:
Defendants’ argument that they mooted this case by deciding, at last, not to roster the players is like saying that someone caught with his hand in the cookie jar has cured the problem by pulling it out. What’s more, Defendants still have their hands in the jar. LSU’s men’s basketball program continues to defy the Professionalism Rules and its head coach promises to be “unapologetic about it.” Scarborough, supra note 1.
The counter is obvious. Come see the court if that happens, because it has not yet. But it did not help the cause that they were able to inject basketball and that quote into it.
As for the argument that LSU might interfere in efforts to throw it out of the conference, I find the argument paper-thin. They say that LSU affirmed the threat of intereference by saying in briefs that it should not be thrown out. That is almost dumb. Saying that you should't be terminated is a far cry from saying you are going to try to interfere (somehow illegally) with the vote to do so. Again, I think they get kicked pretty hard in the reply brief on this one.
The SEC then says that the matter is live (not moot) because the SEC did not call the vote.
quote:
A rule that treats such restraint as a concession of mootness would punish parties for seeking resolution and reward those who exploit it.
Just as an aside, I think the following excerpt is a terrible sentence on the same point and should have been rewritten. I would not have filed a brief that used this weird (to me) sentence structure. But that's just me. There is jsut too much going on there. And its a topic sentence, which makes it worse.
quote:
Accepting Defendants’ mootness argument would also have the perverse effect of penalizing the Conference for showing restraint in its dealings with LSU.
There are some related ripeness arguments. As I have always understood it, mootness means it is no longer a dispute, and ripeness means it is not yet a dispute. The ripeness arguments in this case are largely a repeat of mootness.
The SEC then moves into the sovereign immunity arguments. I hated this issue when I studied Ex Parte Young under the stern tutelage of Professor Pugh. I am going to leave it at that. I do not see any real advantage to either side in these arguments, although it may be appellate fodder.
There is a long section on personal jurisdiction. For the NL, this is the power of a court to force a particular individual to appear before it. For the lawyers, think back to your hazy first year memories of International Shoe under Bockrath. The only notable part here is that they accuse Liz of committing an "intentional tort." That is a little strong. And just for the record, they did not mention the billboards.
There is then the argument that the SEC cannot pursue a civil rights claim here (1983) because it is, effectively, the State. The civil rights statute in question protects against state action, not private action. There is a long argument here about whether public universities are the "State." FWIW, I looked at this under the 11th amendment in another case and concluded that they are. But that was a few years ago.
This is their take--
quote:
Under that view, if other states banned LSU from advertising to students or speaking with recruits in those states, or if the federal government told LSU which classes to teach or which professors to hire, the First Amendment would have nothing to say about it. Defendants’ refusal to take the bitter with the sweet on these points is another waiver.
That has surface appeal. I am going to have to think about that one.
They also point out that Vanderbilt, a private university, is a member of the SEC. No surprise there.
There is more to these First Amendment arguments, but they are rather abstruse.
My overall take. The SEC scores a couple of points, but 12 out of 15 rounds go to LSU (to use a boxing analogy).
That's just my take. Also, the SEC brief is way too long at forty-one pages.
Have to do actual work now. Excuse any typos. I will try to clean it up later.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:05 am to JudgeHolden
quote:
abstuse
The tRant lawyers can’t even spell obtuse correctly. Doesn’t exactly make me feel confident in the rest of your post…
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:08 am to JudgeHolden
Downvoted because none of this has had any merit from the start.
Arbitrary and capricious.
Arbitrary and capricious.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:10 am to JudgeHolden
You think way too much of yourself
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:12 am to Pedropatterstine
quote:
You think way too much of yourself
No one is as smart as I think I am, including me. I am pretty aware of that.
You are probably right. But it is hard to be a good lawyer without a healthy amount of confidence. That said, feel free to comment on the merits.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:14 am to burreauxsballz
quote:
The tRant lawyers can’t even spell obtuse correctly.
I actually meant "abstruse." Note the comment in the final sentence. I knew there were some typos. Had to jump on a Zoom.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 11:49 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:14 am to JudgeHolden
Got it. Just poking fun. I hope we kick the SECs arse
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:16 am to burreauxsballz
quote:
Got it. Just poking fun. I hope we kick the SECs arse
All good. Me too. We should.
I am actually going to be in that court (but not before that judge) in November and then again in January.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:17 am to JudgeHolden
quote:
“We’re going to be unapologetic about it. This is who we are. This is what we’re doing. This is the path that we charted. We’re going to go down it, and that's fine.”
That line is taken out of context. When he said that he was speaking in terms of they were going to have to recruit international players for this years team. It seems the SEC is trying to spin that into, LSU is going to do whatever it wants, and we don't care what you think.
LSU can point out countless other cases of international players being rostered at other SEC schools. RJ Louis is a different story, and I believe it's handled correctly that LSU ultimately not roster him. But even in this case, the SEC will argue that he practiced, and attended school. What about the kid from Bama last year? He practiced, attended school, was rostered, and played. How is what LSU did here worse?
I think this all boils down to the rest of the SEC being extremely butt hurt that LSU hired Kiffin and Wade. That's really all it is. Now they are just kicking and screaming, like children, trying to find some reason to get their way. I hope LSU holds its ground and continues to fight back.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:19 am to Pedropatterstine
quote:
You think way too much of yourself
You seem very insecure.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:22 am to burreauxsballz
I would not speak to JudgeHolden or about JudgeHolden in that manner
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:22 am to JudgeHolden
Thanks for the breakdown. In regards to the SEC argument that LSU will try to block the SEC’s ability to remove LSU from the conference, is the SEC arguing that LSU will try to block a vote on procedural grounds or that LSU will file suit if they are kicked out? LSU hasn’t done the former but would certainly do the latter if removed from the conference. Is the SEC essentially asking for immunity from lawsuit in the event that they do vote LSU out? I’m not a lawyer, but that seems like a real stretch.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:25 am to JudgeHolden
quote:
That's just my take. Also, the SEC brief is way too long at forty-one pages.
Thanks so much. The federal judge for whom I clerked always said "It's supposed to be a BRIEF."
Even having read your analysis, I am STILL not sure the SEC's reason for filing the suit.
It seems as if most of the facts are not in dispute. So what?
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:26 am to JudgeHolden
If the SEC submitted a 41-page brief to keep this alive, it is clear they no longer want us in the conference, or more likely just a small faction doesn't want us.
Maybe it is time for LSU to go court interest from another conference, and if there is legitimate interest, they should go ahead and call the vote themselves along with a motion for Sankey's removal. Essentially, say it's us or Sankey. Take it or leave it.
Maybe it is time for LSU to go court interest from another conference, and if there is legitimate interest, they should go ahead and call the vote themselves along with a motion for Sankey's removal. Essentially, say it's us or Sankey. Take it or leave it.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:30 am to EasterEgg
quote:
If the SEC submitted a 41-page brief to keep this alive, it is clear they no longer want us in the conference, or more likely just a small faction doesn't want us.
Maybe. This length of a brief is in character for some of the lawyers involved.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:31 am to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:
That line is taken out of context.
So was "Strong arse offer"
They're not interested in context. They're interested in a pound of flesh.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:31 am to JudgeHolden
quote:
Wade's comments did not help us.
So , basically “you followed the rules but said some things we didn’t like while following them”
Honk
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:31 am to burreauxsballz
quote:
obtuse
He meant abstruse. People make typos; it happens.
abstruse - something difficult to understand, complex, or obscure because its meaning feels hidden or intellectually demanding
Posted on 10/14/26 at 10:34 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
Even having read your analysis, I am STILL not sure the SEC's reason for filing the suit.
Me either. LSU had broken no rule. My guess is that they wanted LSU to accept some sort of penalty and LSU said - no thanks. The suit is there just for leverage although I’m not sure exactly how that helps the SEC if it’s.a weak case. I guess LSU takes a PR hit since most rational people assume there would be no lawsuit if there weren’t at least some wrongdoing. Maybe the case exists solely for PR purposes.

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