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Message
re: Scott Must Be Waiting On The Investigation
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:04 pm to jcaz
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:04 pm to jcaz
quote:
A blowout loss to Florida just might do the job. If not, surely a bad loss to a bad Ole Miss team will
Firing now Orgeron isn't going to have any impact on the product on the field. This is a poorly coached, bad football team and putting Mickey Joseph in charge isn't going to change that.
quote:
At least blowouts are understandable with a rebuilding team
Huh? Putting an interim in place isn't the start of a rebuild. That happens when the new hire is made.
0
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:11 pm to lovinLSU
quote:
. they are looking to get out of owing Orgeron nothing from his buyout in his contract….
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:21 pm to JHorton71
quote:
Os contract and wording in it has everything to do with title 9. If guilty they can fire with cause and have no buyout.
You are correct on O's contract and compliance. The point is that the NCAA aint investigating Title IX.
It has been discussed here many times, if LSU has any crap on Ed on Title IX then they are in more shite than he is because they already rolled out the blue ribbon commission report that said he was clean. If they have info otherwise then they have withheld that info from the public and possibly plaintiffs
Dont get me wrong I believe he is dead man walking too. It is just that firing for cause takes a lengthy process unless he has broken compliance issues
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:27 pm to JHorton71
quote:
Os contract and wording in it has everything to do with title 9. If guilty they can fire with cause and have no buyout.
What is the language
The whole athletic department & university is on the hook too, not just Orgeron
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:36 pm to JPLSU1981
You are forgetting local economy impact and concession sales/Merch sales though.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:37 pm to whitefoot
Fair point, but do you think players will play harder for a guy that is fired up to be getting a chance to show what he can do and tries, or the guy that is mailing in the check because he knows he is done.
Players will react to O mailing it in and will do the same.
Players will react to O mailing it in and will do the same.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:38 pm to Lester Earl
I was looking at his contract earlier today and the first stipulation for term with cause is compliance with all laws,regulations, etc. But so far I have not heard anyone allege any of those kind of violations
If they want to fire him for cause for behaviors then that starts to run down a different path in his contract that requires certain written communications,meetings, responses, etc that would be a time consuming and progressive discipline process. LSU would have a difficult time pushing an issue to immediate termination unless it was eggegious like the Bama coach using his univ CC at strip clubs or Freezes hooker problem...
If they want to fire him for cause for behaviors then that starts to run down a different path in his contract that requires certain written communications,meetings, responses, etc that would be a time consuming and progressive discipline process. LSU would have a difficult time pushing an issue to immediate termination unless it was eggegious like the Bama coach using his univ CC at strip clubs or Freezes hooker problem...
This post was edited on 10/11/21 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 10/11/21 at 3:47 pm to lovinLSU
The NCAA and title IX have nothing to do with each other
This has been stated almost daily on this board
This has been stated almost daily on this board
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:12 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
Waiting until the end of a season to fire a coach is smart. Look coaches know when they are gone, but if you remove a head man with mostly a staff that has not finished unpacking from their move to BR, you risk so much more damage. Keeping Orgeron here until close to the end mitigates harm. Who do you get to replace him? What is the replacement's incentive? You think Mickey Joseph or Deronte Jones care? Mickey can just call his brother for a job and Deronte can go back to the pros as well. You want Peetz? Brad Davis? Maybe Corey Raymond if there was some sort of guarantee that he were retained.
This is not like 2016 where you fired the head man and his OC and things improved. You fire Orgeron now and that dumpster fire will look like a California wild fire....patience, You don't want the football program to really get screwed, because firing Orgeron now will make it worse.
This is not like 2016 where you fired the head man and his OC and things improved. You fire Orgeron now and that dumpster fire will look like a California wild fire....patience, You don't want the football program to really get screwed, because firing Orgeron now will make it worse.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:15 pm to TheJuicey
quote:
do you think players will play harder for a guy that is fired up to be getting a chance to show what he can do and tries
I just don't see anyone on the staff, or Ensminger, being this guy or eliciting any kind of meaningful enthusiasm from the team.
Honestly, I really don't care about the timing of when Orgeron gets fired. The season and recruiting are what they are at this point. I don't see any urgency in firing him because I believe the only thing that's going to solve the problem is hiring a new coach, and that won't happen until November/December.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:17 pm to whitefoot
quote:
Firing Orgeron won't help with recruiting. Only hiring the new coach will.
You’ve already admitted in another thread that O lame duck recruiting will be a negative. Getting rid of him may not “help,” but it sure as hell hurts less. That’s a net positive whatever semantics you’re spinning. It also lets the remaining staff and admin know where they stand in reality, because as I said yesterday, whatever Thomas and others know today about where recruits supposedly stand isn’t worth dick. No one will know where they stand until O is fired. Hell, they may not know themselves until it’s done and final. That’s just human nature.
quote:
You're going to have to help me understand this one. Firing the shitty head coach and leaving the shitty assistants in charge is going to help player development?
Not all of the position coaches are shitty and it’s hard to develop underclassmen who aren’t being given any time on the field. It doesn’t matter if they are ready. Give them whatever run they can handle and find out where they are in terms of talent and development.
O doesn’t give a shite about the future because he still holding onto hope they he can save his own arse. Getting rid of him before the end of the season will at least get some of these guys off the bench and increase the odds that they are willing to stay. Or maybe we find out that they aren’t at an SEC level and should move on. Either way, that’s valuable data for the next staff and you don’t get that from practice or camp. There’s nothing like game experience to see where players stand.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:18 pm to KiwiHead
Yep, I personally believe you put off the official firing for as long as you possibly can.
Unless something major happens that forces your hand, you wait until as close to the new hire announcement as possible.
Unless something major happens that forces your hand, you wait until as close to the new hire announcement as possible.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:30 pm to misey94
quote:
You’ve already admitted in another thread that O lame duck recruiting will be a negative
No, I said keeping Orgeron on just to recruit is the dumbest thing I read yesterday, and that's saying a lot since this board has lost it's mind.
quote:
Getting rid of him may not “help,” but it sure as hell hurts less.
I disagree with this. I don't think firing him helps recruiting at all. I don't think keeping him helps recruiting at all. I'm pretty sure I've been pretty consistent with this.
quote:
whatever semantics you’re spinning
What fricking semantics am I spinning? I don't give a shite when Woodward fires Orgeron.
I quit replying to you yesterday when I realized we just fundamentally disagree about what benefit exists regarding the timing of Orgeron's firing. I'm not sure why you're coming at me with some kind of "gotcha" bullshite and totally misconstruing what I said.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:35 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
Unless something major happens that forces your hand, you wait until as close to the new hire announcement as possible.
What’s going to happen is Ed is going to embarrass the shite out of the program and university. He’s already threatening callers to his show, getting stressed by fairly lightweight media questions about his job status, and blowing up at his own minions (reportedly) about trivial things, and this train is just getting started.
It is also going to be worse having him recruiting as a lame duck and him talking to kids and parents about a future everyone knows he has no part in over the next several weeks. I can’t even fathom how some of you think it’s better to have him still recruiting than out of the way.
If Woodward is doing this to save a few bucks on a buyout, then he’s penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to the overall perception of the LSU Football brand.
If you guys were talking about a typical coach who conducts himself as a professional, I might agree with some of the arguments to wait. We aren’t. We all know who O is and the kind of shite he’s likely to pull. He isn’t the guy you leave dangling while playing out the string if you can help it. I have little doubt he’ll make Woodward regret it before it’s over if he waits until the A&M game.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 4:44 pm to whitefoot
quote:
I disagree with this. I don't think firing him helps recruiting at all. I don't think keeping him helps recruiting at all. I'm pretty sure I've been pretty consistent with this.
We will lose more commits keeping him until A&M than we will cutting him loose sooner. O is desperate to save his job and that makes him poison to everything LSU Football from here until he’s gone. Recruiting will be no exception.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 5:00 pm to misey94
quote:
We will lose more commits keeping him until A&M than we will cutting him loose sooner. O is desperate to save his job and that makes him poison to everything LSU Football from here until he’s gone. Recruiting will be no exception.
I don't know what to tell you, bud. I disagree with you. We can keep going around and around, but I don't think that's going to change anything. We can still be friends.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 5:04 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
quote:
That being said, LSU has a lot to lose here in terms of recruiting and player development. For those reasons, I think he should make a change.
The new coach will have to figure out recruiting either way.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 5:37 pm to GetmorewithLes
quote:Yes! Hardly anyone else gets it.
if LSU has any crap on Ed on Title IX then they are in more shite than he is because they already rolled out the blue ribbon commission report that said he was clean.
Posted on 10/11/21 at 5:58 pm to whitefoot
quote:
I don't know what to tell you, bud. I disagree with you. We can keep going around and around, but I don't think that's going to change anything. We can still be friends.
Nothing personal, even if the words get pointed sometimes. It’s just a message board.
But I do still disagree. Posted on 10/11/21 at 6:30 pm to whitefoot
quote:
Firing Orgeron won't help with recruiting. Only hiring the new coach will.
I tend to agree with this. Either way you’re dealing with negative recruiting. And for folks who are worried about Orgeron going off the rails, consider the possibility that if he goes too far, he opens himself up to a legit for-cause firing.
Another thing I think is worth considering: The longer a coaching search goes on in public, the more dysfunctional it can appear. Woodward might want the outward appearance of a very fast-moving process, both for public perception among fans as well as to put more pressure on the candidate(s) once an offer is made.
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