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re: Question about the bias of SEC refs
Posted on 10/19/10 at 7:43 pm to jmath23lsu
Posted on 10/19/10 at 7:43 pm to jmath23lsu
I posted this data a couple of years ago. Have not updated it because the SEC has stopped providing the data in a manner that is easy to get at.
So yes, I do believe in the refs being biased toward Alabama and Auburn.
quote:
Looked up the number of penalties from 2002-2007 for Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, and Tenn.
2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007(9 gams)
Aub 108 74 80 67 72 65
AL 121 77 70 74 78 46
FL 109 96 106 102 116 69
LSU 92 102 72 108 83 83
Tenn95 94 85 87 64 52
FL, LSU, Tenn seem to have a similar, random pattern. Look what happens in 2003 and is contiuing through today. Auburn and AL drop 30-50 penalties a year compared to the year before. How can two schools in the same state both become and stay such great no-penalty teams in the same year and stay that way? It's not that we are getting penalized more(in a statistical sense); it's that Auburn and AL are getting penalized much less on a consistant basis. The refs are just not calling those two teams the way they are calling the others. Guess who was hired in late 2002...Mike Slive. That was a surprise for me. I was already to blame it on Redding, but he didn't arrive until 2006.
So yes, I do believe in the refs being biased toward Alabama and Auburn.
This post was edited on 10/19/10 at 8:00 pm
3
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:02 pm to Tiger 1964
Someone actually accumulated the data for all the teams in the SEC for 2006. Bama was the least penalized team in the SEC and their opponents were the most penalized. Auburn had the third fewest penalties called on them, and their opponents were the second most penalized. It's one thing if fewer penalties are called on a team (as it can be argued that they are well coached and disciplined), but the calls on a teams opponents should be about equal because it's a random assortment of teams.
Hell, just check the number of penalties called on LSU this year in SEC games vs. the OOC games and you'll likely see the bias.
Hell, just check the number of penalties called on LSU this year in SEC games vs. the OOC games and you'll likely see the bias.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:19 pm to WikiTiger
Best part about this thread?
it was started by the guy that LOATHES corrupt authority. Nothing says corrupt like saying "We changed the ruling on the field. Now lets go to replay with our eyes closed so we can pretend like we actually have replay in this conference."
it was started by the guy that LOATHES corrupt authority. Nothing says corrupt like saying "We changed the ruling on the field. Now lets go to replay with our eyes closed so we can pretend like we actually have replay in this conference."
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:24 pm to TigersRuleTheEarth
I actually appreciate threads like these because the issue needs to be clarified.
This conference has inane officiating, not corrupt officiating.
This conference has inane officiating, not corrupt officiating.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:33 pm to Ross
quote:
This conference has corrupt officiating.
Don't over think it.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:33 pm to Ross
quote:
This conference has inane officiating, not corrupt officiating.
I honestly believe the following:
The SEC has substandard officiating. That leads to instances where replay is being consulted when it really shouldn't be, but whatever. We need to get it right don't we? The rule is written to where the ruling can't be overturned unless ALL doubt is removed by video evidence. Well, if you happen to be a fan or alum of the home team, then you will never have all doubt removed. Plus it is probably true that the replay official is already leaning towards the team he has been a fan of for years.
Three things need to happen:
1. Make a rule to where there can't be anyone with ties to either team competing in the replay booth. It's crazy to have an alum of one of the teams in the fricking booth. INSANE.
2. Change the wording to where you don't have to have a picture of the ball holding two forms of ID identifying it and someone on the field signing a voucher saying it didn't happen the way called on the field so you can overturn the call. The questionable calls in the Auburn/Arky game this year and LSU/Bama game last year had PLENTY of obvious evidence to overturn the call on the field, but shitty officials can just point to that wording in the rule and say "We weren't convinced". Well frick, 99% of America was convinced by the same video evidence.
3. GET BETTER OFFICIALS.
Right now the SEC has replay only in name. If you can sit in a booth and know you can get away with not overturning a call with obvious evidence because the wording in the rule gives you an "out" then of course you're going to use that out to help the team you like.
This post was edited on 10/19/10 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 10/19/10 at 8:50 pm to josh336
quote:
Auburn LSU 2006 is the only game I've ever felt was fixed, multiple blown calls. Not sure by who or how, but it was fixed.
Josh, I am not a conspiracy theorist and I do believe that we landed on the moon. But I agree with you on this. That game was fixed.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:01 pm to WikiTiger
Simply stated, both Alabama and Auburn get very favorable treatment when playing at home. I believe it's because the SEC office is in Birmingham.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:09 pm to Tiger 1964
quote:
Looked up the number of penalties from 2002-2007 for Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, and Tenn.
2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007(9 gams)
Aub 108 74 80 67 72 65
AL 121 77 70 74 78 46
FL 109 96 106 102 116 69
LSU 92 102 72 108 83 83
Tenn95 94 85 87 64 52
So I ran an ANOVA on these numbers, and if I did everything correct, then this mathematically proves that there is no statistically significant difference in those numbers at all. In other words, there is no bias.
Here's the evidence:
If I did anything incorrectly then please let me know and I will rerun the tests.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:19 pm to WikiTiger
Why just Florida Tennesse and LSU included? Why not all SEC teams?
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:22 pm to josh336
quote:
Why just Florida Tennesse and LSU included? Why not all SEC teams?
I dunno. Ask the guy that originally posted the data. He chose to limit it to those teams for whatever reason. I will analyze the data of all teams if anyone can link me to it. (I don't have time to compile the statistics so I can't go through each box score of every SEC game.)
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:29 pm to WikiTiger
There isn't a conspiracy as such. It is just a culture that has evolved over the years. There is no plan, it just one of those things that happen to grow. What likely happens is that if an official makes a close call against either of the Alabama teams, he gets a quiet and unofficial, "Come on man."
It probably started back in the early Bryant years when Alabama football was the only positive news coming out of the south due to the integration issue. A natural feeling to protect "our" best grew out of those years. It became ingrained in the way calls are made.
All of this is just speculation based on my being an old guy that has seen and heard a lot of SEC football games.
Having the office in the state of Alabama doesn't hurt the Alabama teams either. Officers and officials get to be invited guests at formal and informal booster functions. They are neighbors after all. Let's have them over for a beer and some ribs.
It all adds up to an unconscious(sp?) bias.
It probably started back in the early Bryant years when Alabama football was the only positive news coming out of the south due to the integration issue. A natural feeling to protect "our" best grew out of those years. It became ingrained in the way calls are made.
All of this is just speculation based on my being an old guy that has seen and heard a lot of SEC football games.
Having the office in the state of Alabama doesn't hurt the Alabama teams either. Officers and officials get to be invited guests at formal and informal booster functions. They are neighbors after all. Let's have them over for a beer and some ribs.
It all adds up to an unconscious(sp?) bias.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:31 pm to WikiTiger
In the decade of the 2000's Alabama and Aub have won ONE SEC championship apiece right? So if the refs are cheating for them, they ain't doing a very good job!
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:33 pm to WikiTiger
It's not just the number, it's the timing as well and you can't look at that statistically. 04 the leaping call at au, 06 the ball tipped mugging call at au, 07 the pp no int call at ua. all game changers.
watch any other conference, the refs generally do not determine the outcome.
if LSU gets hosed again this year, time to call the big 12 for expansion info.
watch any other conference, the refs generally do not determine the outcome.
if LSU gets hosed again this year, time to call the big 12 for expansion info.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:35 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
And the NCAA offices are located in Indianapolis
Has nothing to do with Conference refs.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:38 pm to icoczar
quote:
It's not just the number, it's the timing as well and you can't look at that statistically. 04 the leaping call at au, 06 the ball tipped mugging call at au, 07 the pp no int call at ua. all game changers.
watch any other conference, the refs generally do not determine the outcome.
So now that a statistical analysis has proven that there's no difference, now all of a sudden it's all about the timing?
I'm telling you, I'm convinced that most of the people on here don't want to see the truth, they don't care about the evidence.....they so desperately want to believe that there is a bias against whatever team they pull for.
And like the poster above you mentioned, if there is such a strong bias for Alabama and Auburn, why do they only have 1 SEC title each since 2000?
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:38 pm to glassman
quote:
Has nothing to do with Conference refs.
Yes, I know. That was a bit of hyperbole to demonstrate the absurdity of the claims that some people were making.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:39 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
I don't think there is "blatant cheating" by the SEC refs, but I do think there is certainly a natural human bias that at times rears its head on questionable calls
Bama and AU get the breaks. A simple rule that any ref with any ties to a school can not ref that game. It is time for the SEC to take a move to clean up the game and the refs.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:41 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
if there is such a strong bias for Alabama and Auburn, why do they only have 1 SEC title each since 2000?
Because their talent wasn't as good as LSU, UF and UT.
Posted on 10/19/10 at 9:44 pm to WikiTiger
A)I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish here. You've basically proven that a change in the amount of penalties for one team does not explain the change in penalties for another. I don't think anyone has implied that is the case. (maybe I'm misunderstanding)
B)There are not nearly enough samples for any meaningful analysis of this type.
B)There are not nearly enough samples for any meaningful analysis of this type.
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