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Started By
Message
re: Out of batters box
Posted on 5/26/24 at 8:54 am to GetmorewithLes
Posted on 5/26/24 at 8:54 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
As explained later by the SEC rule guy the balk was a "catchers balk."
Pretty sure that was an announcer using that phrase. Catchers Balk isn't a term in the rule book so I don't recall Paul Guillie saying that. The balk is charged to the pitcher. People use that phrase b/c it isn't the pitcher's fault.
Read the rule:
quote:
p. If, on an attempted squeeze play or steal of home plate, the catcher steps on or in front of home plate without possession of the ball or touches the batter or the bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk and the catcher with interference.
By rule, the play was dead as soon as the ruled Neal touched the plate (we know he didn't). So the pitch didn't count. SEC umpire Paul Guillie clarification
1
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:05 am to notbilly
The runner never touched home.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:08 am to BilbeauTBaggins
quote:
Does the pitch end because this turns into a throw to home to stop a steal?
No. It was a pitch. But it seems as if they called interference before the pitch was complete, negating that there was no interference to the absent batter and awarding him first base before considering how retarded that concept was.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:17 am to NotaStarGazer
This is my point, the batter stepped out of the box before Neal moved forward which means there can't be any interference. Then you go stepping on or in front of the plate, which also didn't happen. Then you go to blocking the plate, which Neal had the ball way before the runner came close to home plate. So this eliminates all three scenarios for that call.
Their batter should have never stepped out of the box, which should have been part of why they would call that steal of home, assuming the catcher would step into the batter and interfere with him.
Their batter should have never stepped out of the box, which should have been part of why they would call that steal of home, assuming the catcher would step into the batter and interfere with him.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:18 am to TBoy@LSU
quote:
The runner never touched home.
That has nothing to do with anything I posted. But the runner was awarded the base and apparently doesn't have to touch it. This is one explanation I found...
quote:
https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/ncaa/ncaa-8-3-entitled-to-bases/
"The base runner shall be entitled to an unoccupied base if the individual touches it before being put out. The base runner is entitled to this base until put out or the individual may be advanced one or more bases under the following conditions:
A) If forced to vacate the base because of a following runner; Note: With two outs, if a runner is awarded home but does not touch the plate before a following runner is put out for the third out, the run scores unless the batter-runner was declared out before reaching first base or any other runner was declared out before reaching the base to which they were forced.
B) If forced to vacate the base because the batter was awarded that base
C) If the batter hits a fair ball that touches another base runner or an umpire before it has been touched by or has passed a fielder, providing the runner is forced to advance
D) If the umpire calls a balk
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:19 am to notbilly
Do you have the next frame? From the last one the ball has just left the pitcher's hand, the batter has one foot out the box with the second one lifting to go out and the catcher is still not touching or in front of home plate.
Logic concludes the batter will be out of the box before the catcher is anywhere near interference. He's bailing bc he sees the runner coming home, not the catcher movement.
Logic concludes the batter will be out of the box before the catcher is anywhere near interference. He's bailing bc he sees the runner coming home, not the catcher movement.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:22 am to BayouCowboy
I would love to know which official brought it up first. Was it the home plate umpire, or a field umpire?
Because of the delay in calling it in the spot, was it brought up by another official?
Because of the delay in calling it in the spot, was it brought up by another official?
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:24 am to TigerDM
quote:
This is my point, the batter stepped out of the box before Neal moved forward which means there can't be any interference.
That is not accurate and it's not relevant. When they wrongfully ruled that Neal touched home plate, the play was dead so it doesn't matter what the batter did. Also, the batter can move if a play is being made. If you go back and watch it in slow motion, Neal moves slightly before the batter begins to back out. Again, this is all meaningless and I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing this up. The ump fricked up the balk/interference call resulting in no pitch.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:26 am to silverthorn
quote:
I would love to know which official brought it up first. Was it the home plate umpire, or a field umpire?
Because of the delay in calling it in the spot, was it brought up by another official?
I didn't see it, but someone posted that the South Carolina coach said he brought it up as the teams were gearing up for the next inning. I think the umps huddled and then changed the call.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:27 am to BilbeauTBaggins
The home plate umpire was concentrating on the runner stealing home and not the batter. Too many moving parts. That play has to be reviewable. The call out was made at home. But the true correct call should have been a called strike 3 for batter stepped out of box without calling time. Of course he couldn't call time because the pitch was on the way. The rule change will be to make that situation reviewable.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:28 am to BayouCowboy
quote:
Do you have the next frame? From the last one the ball has just left the pitcher's hand, the batter has one foot out the box with the second one lifting to go out and the catcher is still not touching or in front of home plate.
Logic concludes the batter will be out of the box before the catcher is anywhere near interference. He's bailing bc he sees the runner coming home, not the catcher movement.
The batter is out of the box when Neal catches the ball. The issue is that they ruled (incorrectly) that Neal touched home before he caught the ball making the play dead. There is technically no pitch here.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:34 am to cajunjoey2010
quote:
The home plate umpire was concentrating on the runner stealing home and not the batter. Too many moving parts. That play has to be reviewable. The call out was made at home.
You are correct.
quote:
But the true correct call should have been a called strike 3 for batter stepped out of box without calling time
Had Neal stayed back to receive the pitch, this argument would have been correct. But a batter can leave the box if a defensive player is making a play on a runner. It's unique and I've never seen this situation on a live pitch. Neal did move first even if only by a hair.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 9:45 am to silverthorn
quote:
Because of the delay in calling it in the spot, was it brought up by another official?
I guarantee that Birmingham called it in. I think the rules say they can overturn a typically unreviewable play if it significantly affects the game.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 10:00 am to silverthorn
quote:The SC coach came out and brought something up and that’s what started the umpire powwow.
I would love to know which official brought it up first. Was it the home plate umpire, or a field umpire?
Posted on 5/26/24 at 10:32 am to LSUnKaty
Right or wrong their coach made the call and ours got tossed because of it.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 10:35 am to Srbtiger06
The process was in no wise legitimate.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 10:46 am to notbilly
quote:
Neal moved to the plate while the batter was still in the box.
No he didn't. Neither of the batter's feet was in the batter's box BEFORE Neal covered any of the plate. Time for you to get your eyes checked. I supplied the video proof and you can slow it down also. Not even a debatable point.
quote:
Neal moves slightly before the batter begins to back out
Yes, he does but that is not any type of violation. He has to be moving forward to the plate area and in the process of covering/touching/straddling the plate. None of those things occurred BEFORE the batter was completely out of the box...no toe touching, no heel touching, nada! The rule doesn't mention that batter's positioning at all which it should. But that is where the "judgment" mentioned by the SEC official should come into play.
Here is the PROPER ruling based on the rule and the circumstances. The batter vacating the box BEFORE the catcher encroaches on home plate removes completely the possibility of catcher's interference. Thus, the play continues and the tag is made...the runner is OUT! The SEC can spin it all they want but they totally ignored the fact that the batter was legally not at the plate when the catcher encroached on the plate.
This post was edited on 5/26/24 at 10:55 am
Posted on 5/26/24 at 11:06 am to Yeahright
quote:
Automatic out because he stepped out of the batters box?
I searched youtube videos for stealing home and saw a bunch of them where the batter stepped out of the box on the steal and the run scored.
It was almost always right hand batters. The left hand batters can just stand there and watch pretty much and if they show bunt it forces the catcher to stay in his stance.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 11:12 am to notbilly
quote:
the South Carolina coach said he brought it up as the teams were gearing up for the next inning. I think the umps huddled and then changed the call.
I missed that. That actually makes it SO much worse. The ump never *saw* what he claimed (since he didn't make the call), and just did what the SC coach told him. That makes this so much more egregious than I even thought.
Posted on 5/26/24 at 11:16 am to TrueTiger
Yeah, the batter can step out of the box anytime he wants to. It happens a lot when he tries to call time too late in the pitcher's motion and the umpire denies him a batter's timeout. The pitch continues just like the play should have continued after he stepped out. But once he has no legal position at the plate, no catcher's interference can be called. Once again, the rule doesn't have to explicitly talk about the batter but it should have. The batter has 0...nada...no rights at the plate if he is not in the batter's box. 'nuff said
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