re: Orgeron v Herman: biggest game of their careers?

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However, if LSU wins (and I certainly hope we do) those who have been touting Orgeron as some sure fire excellent coach will point to this as the be all end all for why LSU definitely, without question, made the right call.

If it goes the other way and LSU loses (which I hope does NOT happen) the same guys will be talking reasonably about how it's just one game, does not mean one is better than the other, etc.

We know it's coming...

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no doubt in my mind

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Geez, he'd only have defeated the guy EVERY LSU FAN WANTED AND LOST THEIR MINDS OVER their first ever matchup, incorrigible.

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The two teams are not, and we're not equal as of December 2016. Herman has done about the same at this point, but started with less to begin with.

That's why you can't use this one game as a microcosm of thier tenures

Dont get me wrong, going into Austin and getting a win over a good team would definitely improve opinion of O, but not in comparison to Herman. Because they are in different situations.

At this point, Herman took a below average team with an average roster and made them top 10.

O took a good team and made them a little bit gooder.

Dude chill put with all the black and white thinking, are you a teenager? Its okay if you are. Most people grow out of that kind of thinking as they mature. Its gonna be fine man. Texas game will definitely be exciting. We will see anyway but, the season isnt over if we lose that game

Not even remotely close.

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All my question entailed was whether it would make a semblance of difference in their minds, not a full-blown conversion, I'm aware it's only one game but it has a particularly special meaning as it's the first O-Herman matchup with the memories of November 2016 still fresh in everyone's minds and the maintained antipathy to O by his in-house skeptics. I would assume these factors would translate to slightly moving the needle logically.

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For me, it would move the needle one game's worth. The added factor that the game was being played against a program coached by a man who was LSU's favored choice over our current one would not make any difference for me personally. The thing that WOULD matter is that it would be a solid win over a team on the road. That would matter MUCH more than who the coach is at Texas.

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Intellectually honest entails commending O for defeating a unanimously-considered superior coach IN HIS HOUSE and slightly modifying one's skeptical stance towards him just a sliver in the positive.

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Again...these guys are not wrestling or playing chess. It is not more a contest between these two coaches specifically than it between our two QB's. This is a simplistic way of looking at team sports. Orgeron will further gain respect by winning big games against quality opponents...NOT because his teams beats the team of a guy who was LSU's choice for coach before him.

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Stubborn entails what you're indicating regardless of the fact his team defeats a RANKED team coached by a GUY EVERYONE WANTED FOR LSU ON THE ROAD, Coach O could literally play the game himself and defeat Texas in Austin and y'all still wouldn't give him any credit, moving the goalposts ever further.

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You continue to equate beating Texas with beating Herman. They are not equivalent. Beating Texas matters, and will be seen as a solid win and a feather in Orgeron's cap. But anyone who puts stock in a team win meaning that our coach is suddenly better than their coach must also conclude that Jimbo is better based on Texas A&M's win over LSU last year...that Dan Mullen is better based on the two straight losses to Mullen coaches teams, etc. Are we saying that? Are you saying it? no one is saying that a win at Texas is not an important win...but attempting to tie it to a referendum on who has the better coach based on one head to head match-up is a silly thing to do, and honestly could potentially backfire on those Orgeron proponents attempting to do so. My being intellectually honest about this means that I will no more bash the guy as being worse than Herman is LSU ends up losing this game than I'll congratulate him for being obviously better is he wins.

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That's not the bottomline of this issue, it's not about who's the superior coach it's about the skeptics at least making progress to accept O in a positive way

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The needle moves with wins over programs...not coaches. The more wins, the more skeptics get on board. It's always been that simple.

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O's piled up MANY wins the last couple of years

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So did the previous coach who we fired in favor of Orgeron...did he not? He averaged 10 wins a season over his career. He was let go because of his inability to beat BAMA and get back to competing for SECW titles and beyond. Piling up wins at LSU is clearly not enough on its own to keep this job. At some point, it's wins plus hardware.

Finally...as much as I disliked the hire, I never thought Ed was going to run the program into the ground. At this point, we are much too far along for that to happen. What I was afraid of was a slow decline which is masked by fan support due to his being local. While there has not been decline yet (thank goodness) there has been very little uptick so far. And yet, we've got many fans acting as if we're light years ahead of the program he took over...which is just untrue. And now we've got fans attempting to solidify this even further by trying to tie a one game head to head match-up into the deciding factor on which program hired the better coach. It's transparent.

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All this combines to create the situation that, if O loses this game, it confirms the doubts about his full-time hire at worst as Herman got the best of O but, if O wins this game, it slightly proves the doubters wrong in a small aspect because he got the best of a unanimous superior head coach in a high-stakes game in addition to rendering our season record to 2-0.

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This is why Goldrush called your POV extreme. While I don't believe that you are an Orgeron skeptic, I actually am. As are many responding to you in this thread. EVEN WE are saying that if LSU was to lose this game WE would not suggest that it automatically means Herman > Orgeron. Likewise, a win doesn't mean Orgeron > Herman.

Why on Earth are your opinions so malleable that they can determine, good or bad, the fate of these coaches as it pertains to their respective programs based on one head-to-head match-up? Other than some random conversation before and during the game by talking heads, this has no bearing on anything.

Not to be a dick, but this sounds like how someone who rarely watches football talks when at a Super Bowl party.

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Herman took a below average team with an average roster

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Texas is top ten of composite talent ratings. They were top 15 talent when Herman walked on campus.

NO!!!

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They were top 15 talent when Herman walked on campus.

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and the whole reason he "walked on campus" is because Charlie Strong lost to a 1 win Kansas team.

I feel like some of yall either have amnesia, or only watch LSU play every Saturday.