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re: Orgeron v Herman: biggest game of their careers?
Posted on 8/19/19 at 7:57 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 8/19/19 at 7:57 pm to Goldrush25
None of those guys except Saban are better than Orgeron.
0
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:05 pm to SoulBrotha91
quote:
It's quite simple: dude's incurred a tremendous amount of skepticism and doubt since Alleva elevated him to full-time HC, probably more than even Les Miles himself
Les won a NC and people still wanted him gone, so no, not more than Miles.
When you think of it like that, really he can only equal the skepticism that Miles got, unless he wins two NCs.
quote:
My point reflects OP, this is a tremendous opportunity for O if he defeats the guy every LSU fan wanted and (correctly) considers the superior coach so as to give him some credibility as LSU's head coach in the minds of in-house skeptics. Would persuade me a sliver.
So, if he loses then the skeptics were right? And we can apply this standard to every other game of the season? If not, this entire narrative is BS.
quote:
Really all the outrage the in-house skeptics express at him that borders on a sort of derangement syndrome. I'm an O skeptic but I'm more of a skeptic who wants to be convinced of one's validity not someone who goes around bashing O like my life depends on it.
I was outraged on 11-26-16. No one is outraged today. We're all looking forward to an extremely strong season for LSU. Why can't this just be one win towards that goal? This neediness to ensure that this coach "gets credit" for things is sad.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:15 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
So, if he loses then the skeptics were right? And we can apply this standard to every other game of the season? If not, this entire narrative is BS.
If you refer to my first post this thread, I basically aver that LSU losing this game TO HERMAN would confirm every doubt I retain about the efficacy of settling for O so, in that case, yeah as relates to me. At worst, it confirms the doubts about O; at best, it doesn't move the needle in the minds of the skeptics.
quote:
Why can't this just be one win towards that goal?
If the events of November 2016 didn't happen, that's what it would be but they did and therefore this game holds a particularly special meaning in addition to the fact it's a primetime matchup of TWO top ten college football teams
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:23 pm to paper tiger
quote:
Its a big game, no matter how anyone may try to downplay it.
Nobody's downplaying this game. We're gonna crush their fricking throats!
quote:
Its about bragging rights for the SEC/Big 12.
Its about recruiting.
Its about revenge for the way Herman screwed LSU.
Its about affirmation for Orgeron, that he was the better choice all along.
It's about beating that fricking arse. I want to embarrass them.
quote:
National championship conversation...I think this is the biggest game of both of these coach's careers to date. And there really can be no excuses
Hopefully we have the team that we think we do. This game will be a good test.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:32 pm to SoulBrotha91
You have an extreme viewpoint on the relevance of this game as it pertains to this coach's status in the coaching world. You shouldn't be upset if no one shares your viewpoint.
First of all, it's a false equivalency; Herman took over a 5 win team and our guy took over a 9 win team, so they didn't really start at the same point, so how can you determine who's taken their team farther? Even if Texas wins, it's a home game for them so it's nothing more than a top 15 team holding serve at home. No one would be surprised except for LSU fans.
I dunno, just too many variables to state unequivocally that one guy is better than the other off of one game. I just care about getting 1 of 12 wins we need for the playoffs.
First of all, it's a false equivalency; Herman took over a 5 win team and our guy took over a 9 win team, so they didn't really start at the same point, so how can you determine who's taken their team farther? Even if Texas wins, it's a home game for them so it's nothing more than a top 15 team holding serve at home. No one would be surprised except for LSU fans.
I dunno, just too many variables to state unequivocally that one guy is better than the other off of one game. I just care about getting 1 of 12 wins we need for the playoffs.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 8:33 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:45 pm to Goldrush25
Y’all are trying to hard in this thread...,,
It’s Herman and it’snot even close....
It’s Herman and it’snot even close....
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:47 pm to paper tiger
Nope, Texas could lose vs LSU, then beat Oklahoma and be fine. That game will make or break a coaches career (OU vs Texas) at either school. Same can be said for Ed. Lose the Texas game, but win 10 games and he’ll be fine.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:55 pm to paper tiger
It may have been said but I’m not reading all of this.
Quirky thing, if Woody would have been here, Herman not O would likely be the LSU coach. So yes I think it’s a big match up probably bigger for O. For that reason I think we whoop UT arse. Our D is going to be flying around like their hair is on fire. Our Lbs are going to make Ellinger want to quit football
Quirky thing, if Woody would have been here, Herman not O would likely be the LSU coach. So yes I think it’s a big match up probably bigger for O. For that reason I think we whoop UT arse. Our D is going to be flying around like their hair is on fire. Our Lbs are going to make Ellinger want to quit football
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:59 pm to paper tiger
I don’t know about Herman, but for Orgeron, the top three are his three losses to Bama.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:19 pm to SoulBrotha91
No we really don’t. Lose to Texas and go 11-1 the rest of the way and it’s playoffs. Quit building this game up to more than it is.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:21 pm to paper tiger
Orgeron has more to lose than Herman IMO. A lot of people are expecting LSU to roll Texas. However, one thing Herman has proved thus far is that he can get a less talented team ready to play (and win) big games.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:38 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
You have an extreme viewpoint on the relevance of this game as it pertains to this coach's status in the coaching world.
I disagree that this game has relevance to O's status in the coaching world, I argue it has relevance to his status in the LSU community particularly the O skeptics. All this derives from the events of November 2016, the fact every LSU person wanted Herman, the fact Herman was LSU's first choice (at least as far as I knew), the fact everyone (correctly) considers Herman superior to O, the grumblings by LSU when we did hire O as we all felt Herman should be the coach and we settled bc we didn't have a true coaching search, the fact this is the first time O faces the guy the LSU community obviously wanted over him, and the fact the matchup occurs in primetime between TWO top ten college football teams. All this combines to create the situation that, if O loses this game, it confirms the doubts about his full-time hire at worst as Herman got the best of O but, if O wins this game, it slightly proves the doubters wrong in a small aspect because he got the best of a unanimous superior head coach in a high-stakes game in addition to rendering our season record to 2-0. The events of November 2016 cannot be overstated when it comes to the narratives surrounding this game.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:00 pm to SoulBrotha91
I agree with your point. There are some around here that view it that way. For example, losing to Jimbob Fisher last season was a checkmark on their negative column.
Personally, I feel Orgeron and Herman thus far are about even. Neither has proven he can win a title. Also, folks forget that Herman lost 3 ballgames his final season at Houston - all 3 losses were on him. If he was elite, he would've finished 12 & 0 (11 & 1 at worst) with that team and that schedule.
I can't really compare Jimbob Fisher and Orgeron because Jimbob has the big national title under his belt, but let's put it this way, Jimbob has been inconsistent, and for that, I am not a big fan of his. He can't hold Saban's jock (but to be fair, very few can). At a place like LSU, I believe you need a head coach that can go 11 & 1 some seasons and can go 10 & 2 in his worst season. None of the 3 have built a program like this, therefore, I'm willing to give Orgeron equal odds at getting it done.
Personally, I feel Orgeron and Herman thus far are about even. Neither has proven he can win a title. Also, folks forget that Herman lost 3 ballgames his final season at Houston - all 3 losses were on him. If he was elite, he would've finished 12 & 0 (11 & 1 at worst) with that team and that schedule.
I can't really compare Jimbob Fisher and Orgeron because Jimbob has the big national title under his belt, but let's put it this way, Jimbob has been inconsistent, and for that, I am not a big fan of his. He can't hold Saban's jock (but to be fair, very few can). At a place like LSU, I believe you need a head coach that can go 11 & 1 some seasons and can go 10 & 2 in his worst season. None of the 3 have built a program like this, therefore, I'm willing to give Orgeron equal odds at getting it done.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:07 pm to paper tiger
Herman is a cuunt.
He was never coming to LSU.
Frick him, Texas, and Alleva.
Go Tigers!
He was never coming to LSU.
Frick him, Texas, and Alleva.
Go Tigers!
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:09 pm to SoulBrotha91
I think you're making more out of this game than is there.
If we win, then it's 1/12 wins that we need to secure a playoff berth. If we lose, it's strike 1 and 2, we'd already be behind the eight ball and would have to run the table to have a shot at the playoff. That's all it means to me.
I don't see how one game can cause that big of a shift in how you perceive a coach. If I thought a coach was superior or inferior to another one game isn't going to change that.
If we win, then it's 1/12 wins that we need to secure a playoff berth. If we lose, it's strike 1 and 2, we'd already be behind the eight ball and would have to run the table to have a shot at the playoff. That's all it means to me.
I don't see how one game can cause that big of a shift in how you perceive a coach. If I thought a coach was superior or inferior to another one game isn't going to change that.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:15 pm to Goldrush25
Some fans are hung up on the Orgeron Herman thing, but yes, I'd say most of us view it exactly as you described. We damn sure don't want to piss away our one mulligan in Week 2. And that's if we even have a mulligan. You won't know until all the dust settles if 11 & 1 is good enough. I think we all feel we need to be undefeated heading into Tuscaloosa.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:27 pm to paper tiger
I'm sure O will be hungrier to win due to many laughing at LSU when they hired him after losing out on Herman and Jimbo. O lost to Jimbo in Jimbo's first year with aTm (though with some huge BS calls) and I'm sure he doesn't want to lose to Herman too. Beating Texas is probably bigger for O than beating LSU would be for Herman. O took over a program that had a lot of talent and this is the year to max out on that experienced talent.
Herman will only be in year 3 at Texas after taking over a program that had 3 straight losing seasons. He has won two bowls and led Texas to their first top 10 finish in nearly a decade. So I don't think he has as much pressure on him. However, the Texas fans will likely get a little pissy if they lose their 3rd consecutive opener under him. It's a very big game, but I think it's bigger for O.
Herman will only be in year 3 at Texas after taking over a program that had 3 straight losing seasons. He has won two bowls and led Texas to their first top 10 finish in nearly a decade. So I don't think he has as much pressure on him. However, the Texas fans will likely get a little pissy if they lose their 3rd consecutive opener under him. It's a very big game, but I think it's bigger for O.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:28 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I think you're making more out of this game than is there.
You've been trying to pitch this narrative since it became apparent that LSU will most likely win this game.
This is a huge game no matter how you slice it.
This game will have significant influence on recruiting, and could well be a tie-breaker when the playoff committee meets.
Chill, Goldy. No one is buying your "ho-hum" narrative.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:41 pm to paper tiger
Nope
Posted on 8/19/19 at 10:46 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I think you're making more out of this game than is there.
FACTS and EVENTS are making this game what it is, doesn't need my hype machine to promote
quote:
If we win, then it's 1/12 wins that we need to secure a playoff berth
Technically true but it ignores the O-Herman dynamic of 2016 that create the additional narratives to supplement, surely you're more aware than this
quote:
If we lose, it's strike 1 and 2, we'd already be behind the eight ball and would have to run the table to have a shot at the playoff. That's all it means to me.
Did you take a hard position on O when Alleva hired him full-time back in 2016 and maintain it to today or just chill about the situation now? The latter constitutes the only logical explanation to your indifference to the storylines certain to be produced regarding this matchup, so O defeating the crowned superior coach IN HIS HOUSE would do nothing to you in terms of your perception of him?
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