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Posted on 9/24/12 at 1:42 pm to Golfer
Questions about the clock-
1)let's say there is no penalty on the play. How much time can we run off before having to snap? As in, if we ran the ball on 4th down after milking the clock and didn't make the 1st down, how much time is left for Auburn to drive with no timeouts?
2)if Auburn took the penalty, how much time can we run off? End the game, maybe?
I think we were in a mode to run the ball on 3rd and 4th down. I think the penalty, despite being declined, screwed that up, and changed up the dynamics, and we opted for the FG.
And just out of curiosity, how many players were on both offense and the FG team?- it might be a bit of confusion to have both teams ready, if you got players in both packages.
1)let's say there is no penalty on the play. How much time can we run off before having to snap? As in, if we ran the ball on 4th down after milking the clock and didn't make the 1st down, how much time is left for Auburn to drive with no timeouts?
2)if Auburn took the penalty, how much time can we run off? End the game, maybe?
I think we were in a mode to run the ball on 3rd and 4th down. I think the penalty, despite being declined, screwed that up, and changed up the dynamics, and we opted for the FG.
And just out of curiosity, how many players were on both offense and the FG team?- it might be a bit of confusion to have both teams ready, if you got players in both packages.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 1:43 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
It wasn't spotted 7 yards back
I was arguing this....
The miss gave them an additional 2 yards from the 18 to 20.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 1:52 pm to Golfer
It was definitely a unique situation.
No one did anything "wrong" per se ... It was just a naturally rushed kind of deal given the somewhat odd circumstances. The way it happenned is exactly how it was supposed to happen given the circumstances (with the exception being that the kicker has to make that kick regardless of being rushed).
Was the kick rushed? Sure, but there was really no way around that given the circumstances. The only way we could have avoided that would have been to still have a timeout in our pocket, which we unfortunately did not.
No one did anything "wrong" per se ... It was just a naturally rushed kind of deal given the somewhat odd circumstances. The way it happenned is exactly how it was supposed to happen given the circumstances (with the exception being that the kicker has to make that kick regardless of being rushed).
Was the kick rushed? Sure, but there was really no way around that given the circumstances. The only way we could have avoided that would have been to still have a timeout in our pocket, which we unfortunately did not.
This post was edited on 9/24/12 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 9/24/12 at 1:57 pm to Golfer
quote:
I explained the situation already from my rather close vantage point and it was ignored.
I didn't ignore it. Good explanation. Makes a lot of sense, so I bet it pissed some people off.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 1:59 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
Anyone who wasn't in "WTF is going on and how is this penalty going to affect the down and clock" mode at that moment is lying to you.....Anyone watching the game would have been well aware that it was a unique and somewhat confusing chain-of-events that took a brief moment to figure out what needed to happen next and in a hurry.
If our coach is caught in a "WTF" moment because the other team declined a penalty then he made a huge mistake.
He either did that (don't know what else he would have been doing to distract him) or he lost track of his timeouts... which would make some sense since he used one on the previous down just to run the clock down.
AND declining the penalty does not create some sort of "unique and somewhat confusing chain-of-events". Something else was wrong and it was ultimately the coach's fault. If you want to say he still should have made the kick, fine. Just don't pretend the situation wasn't a screw up on Miles' part.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:02 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
He either did that (don't know what else he would have been doing to distract him) or he lost track of his timeouts...
He did neither.. Its just a hole in the rules where they had to wait to hear what the call was then only had a short time to get the team lines up and ready to kick. The team was lined up with 10 seconds left on the clock but it takes a while for the kicker to walk off his spot. So it was down to 3 when they snapped it and it felt rushed.
Why is this so fricking hard to understand?
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:06 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
don't know what else he would have been doing to distract him
He was talking to the booth, so I imagine they were talking about an extra third down play in the event the penalty was accepted.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:07 pm to Golfer
quote:
I explained the situation already from my rather close vantage point and it was ignored.
Imagine that...an accurate eyewitness account that directly refute rantards accusations that CLM can't manage the clock....and it was ignored?...lol..welcome to the rant.
I'll add my two cents here. I DVR'd the CST replay last night and they had good shots of the LSU sideline on the last sequence of events.
1. During the timeout before the 3rd down play, CLM is clearly shown going to the SP team coach and letting him know to get the FG team ready to go for after the play. So no confusion there. FG ready to go.
2. After the 3rd down play was run, the scenario played out just as "Golfer" described it earlier in this thread. As soon as CLM and the coaching staff were made aware of the penalty being declined CLM ordered the FG team on the field.
3.The FG team ROUTINELY practices running on the field in time short situations and the coaches know EXACTLY in how short a time they can comfortably get a FG attempt off. The time remaining on the play clock was well within these time constraints.
These are all things that you will notice if you ACTUALLY watch the game again, removing your emotions and agenda's from the equation. Yes, AGENDA's. Too many on here, like "Antonio Moss" are looking for any tiny little thing they can to blame on Miles lack of "clock management" or "game management".
I have a question for you types. If Miles is truly "the worst coach in the country" at game and clock management, then how do you explain his results in terms of wins and losses? Perhaps being a great "game manager" is not as important of a quality in a HC as ya'll seem to think it is. I certainly think CLM is having time management issues that are overstated by our fanbase, as evidenced by this thread, but I also think too much weight is being given to this particular quality in a HC. It's waaaay more important to be good at other things that relate more to how a team is built and maintained and taught to play and compete. I'll explain all that to you if you ask!
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:11 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
If our coach is caught in a "WTF" moment because the other team declined a penalty then he made a huge mistake.
He was caught in your so called "WTF moment" when both the visual and audio signals for the penalty were not clear from Tom Ritter.
We lost maybe 3 seconds from Les asking for confirmation of the call to the booth, then sending in the FG team.
As I said earlier, this is one of those little items that come into play because you are the visiting team.
This post was edited on 9/24/12 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:12 pm to Tigerstark
No timeouts and it seems like we were waiting on the penalty before they decided to kick. It was a bad kick, rushed or not. What if we are down late in the game with only a few seconds left? The kicker is going to be rushed. He has to make those.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:14 pm to Scoob
quote:
1)let's say there is no penalty on the play. How much time can we run off before having to snap? As in, if we ran the ball on 4th down after milking the clock and didn't make the 1st down, how much time is left for Auburn to drive with no timeouts?
if there were no penalty, we'd have had a 40 second play clock...game clock stopped at 1:17 if I recall correctly from the replay for "penalty administration." If we used the full play clock, the snap would've occurred at 0:37.
quote:
2)if Auburn took the penalty, how much time can we run off? End the game, maybe?
anytime a flag is thrown and referrees deal with "penalty administration." a 25 second playclock is used, which is what happened.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:32 pm to meldawg399
quote:
anytime a flag is thrown and referrees deal with "penalty administration." a 25 second playclock is used, which is what happened.
To answer the question, if clock stopped at 1:17, it starts with 25 second game clock. Snap at 1 second would leave the clock at :53. Minus about 7 seconds for the play and reset, we could have run the clock down to about 6-7 seconds if Auburn took the penalty.
That's the only concern I have on the part of Miles. He could have run that scenario in his head and figured it was likely Auburn would decline, which would have saved some time, maybe. But he still had to wait for the call to be sure.
It's a trickier situation than Miles haters want it to be.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:34 pm to BabySam
Has been discussed. The FG team was rushed. No doubt about it. Alleman could still have made the kick, but rushing it didn't help.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:38 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
I have a question for you types. If Miles is truly "the worst coach in the country" at game and clock management, then how do you explain his results in terms of wins and losses?
Yeah, but you're not talking about wins and losses with regards to time management issues. The Ole Miss debacle was a LOSS. The TN was almost one and I believe there was another game either last year of year before (someone help me out here) that could have led to a loss. Sorry, lsuexpert57, but time management is VERY important in coaching.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:41 pm to meldawg399
quote:Thanks. BTW, what about that "dead zone" between plays... still happens, right? Clock rolls, but you get about 3- 5 seconds where the ball is spotted and players get up, and then the playclock starts again. Or have they stopped that?
if there were no penalty, we'd have had a 40 second play clock...game clock stopped at 1:17 if I recall correctly from the replay for "penalty administration." If we used the full play clock, the snap would've occurred at 0:37.
quote:so, 3rd and about 15 or so, with 1:17 and ticking. In theory could force us into tougher kick, at the cost of having maybe 15 seconds left in game.
)if Auburn took the penalty, how much time can we run off
I'd figure Auburn still expected we'd make the kick either way, and took the extra seconds (more important at that point).
You also have to believe that unless the kickoff is through the endzone or out of bounds McCalebb is gonna get his hands on it somehow. He was close twice, and I was afraid of him getting the ball again
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:48 pm to Scoob
another question re- the rules:
Penalty on the offense- game clock still rolls, or does it stop? I thought it stopped, for some reason.
edit- I guess I just thought on a penalty late in the game, the clock would be applied in a penalizing manner to the team committing the penalty...
if you're running clock, it would stop; if you're trying to hurry, there was a 10 second runoff.
Penalty on the offense- game clock still rolls, or does it stop? I thought it stopped, for some reason.
edit- I guess I just thought on a penalty late in the game, the clock would be applied in a penalizing manner to the team committing the penalty...
if you're running clock, it would stop; if you're trying to hurry, there was a 10 second runoff.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:52 pm to GRTiger
quote:
He could have run that scenario in his head and figured it was likely Auburn would decline, which would have saved some time, maybe. But he still had to wait for the call to be sure.
Can you imagine the backlash had he sent the FG unit out there on 3rd and 13 and 1:17 remaining...
Posted on 9/24/12 at 2:55 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
1. During the timeout before the 3rd down play, CLM is clearly shown going to the SP team coach and letting him know to get the FG team ready to go for after the play. So no confusion there. FG ready to go.
2. After the 3rd down play was run, the scenario played out just as "Golfer" described it earlier in this thread. As soon as CLM and the coaching staff were made aware of the penalty being declined CLM ordered the FG team on the field.
I'm not going to jump on the "bash-wagon", but first, calling timeout on 3rd down was a mistake. The play that was called required nothing special in terms of discussion with the QB, they were just letting the clock run. Then you call timeout with 1 second on the play clock before 4th down (assuming you don't convert on third)
You'd have to be crazy to think that Chizik was going to accept that penalty. Flag, or no flag, you run the FG team on as soon as you realize that the 3rd down play wasn't converted. I was sitting higher up, but it seemed as though about 10 seconds lapsed after the call was made by the official before the FG team came onto the field.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:20 pm to ForeLSU
Even if it was 10 seconds--- not likely given the play clock only had 25 sec on it-- I still can't see what is not clear to you.
Miles, according to Golfer, could not clearly see the signal or hear it. It required confirmation from the booth. This is done in headphones in deafening noise. He has to look for the signal, realize it still isn't clear what they signaled, talk to the booth to confirm.
Then, in all that noise, send out the correct personnel group who all have to hear it as well.
Y'all all expect this to happen seamlessly. This actually was not a screw-up. This is exactly why rushed FGs are practiced regularly. If the scenario is manageable by a coach, why would it be routinely practiced?
Bottom line, it looked ugly and Miles was on the sideline. To many peple, that means it was automatically a screw-up.
TN game finish was a screw-up. This was not.
Miles, according to Golfer, could not clearly see the signal or hear it. It required confirmation from the booth. This is done in headphones in deafening noise. He has to look for the signal, realize it still isn't clear what they signaled, talk to the booth to confirm.
Then, in all that noise, send out the correct personnel group who all have to hear it as well.
Y'all all expect this to happen seamlessly. This actually was not a screw-up. This is exactly why rushed FGs are practiced regularly. If the scenario is manageable by a coach, why would it be routinely practiced?
Bottom line, it looked ugly and Miles was on the sideline. To many peple, that means it was automatically a screw-up.
TN game finish was a screw-up. This was not.
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