re: Men’s Basketball Program

There are no Mcmahon nut huggers. I only spoke up because there are delusional Wade worshipping cultists on here. I have made it know'n that I am a Wade fan. I didn't want him fired.BUT HE"S GONE. For 2 years already. And you don't even realize your hatred for Mcmahon, and yes it's hate, is based on your hatred for Woodward. You are sooo delusional that you compare Wade's first year with Mcmahon. Never said Mcmahon was a better coach. Just said it is stupid to demand the firing of a coach after these past 2 years. And it is. You say we should have hired Beard. He wasn't available and Ole Miss sucks right now and we beat him. Then you say he should have been more like the Mizzou coach in his first year but he sucked this year and we beat him. You said he needed to be more like the SC coach and we beat him on the road without our leading scorer and starting PG.But you say mcmahon sucks. LOL. The only ones moving the goal posts are the mcmahon haters. You said he would suck this year and we'd be lucky to win 4 games. You said he needed to have an upset or beat a ranked team. He did but then you say oh they aren't really that good when he beat them. The only one's moving the goal posts are you. I don't know if Mcmahon is the guy but he damn sure gets 3-4 yrs to prove it. I he doesn't then they'll let him go and replace him with someone else. But I will call out the whiny bitching vagina bleeding morons on here who have a sick obsession with a former coach who ain't coming back. And I will be watching that former coach today hoping he beats Gonzaga. Get over yourselves or seek professional help.

McMahon definitely showed improvement from last season. I don't know how anyone could reasonably argue otherwise. But improvement doesn't necessarily equal "good". It just equals improvement. I used this as a bit of a funny example, but in 2021 EBR had a record high 170 homicides. In 2022 that number dropped to 135...which was still the 3rd most in the last 25 years. There's no doubt 2022 was improvement. But that doesn't mean it was good.

McMahon went 17-16 this year. While definitely improved, it's not "good". Nonetheless, that improvement earned him SOME of the benefit of the doubt he lost last season. Prior to last season he was given the benefit of the doubt. That's why a lot of names you know looked at LSU's roster before the season, coupled with McMahon's success at Murray St. in 21-22, and though LSU COULD be a potential NCAA Tournament team. That wasn't delusional LSU fans. That was people who have no personal feelings towards LSU. Instead, he bombed worse than anyone could have reasonably imagined and a roster that posters on here, almost unanimously, felt was decent suddenly because "horrible". Maybe the roster was horrible and no one could have done much better. Or maybe it was a average roster that produced horrible results because of poor coaching. Different sports obviously, be we saw a very depleted football roster pieced together with some transfers go from .500 with bad coaching to SEC West champs with good coaching. To simply put all blame on "bad" players is illogical.

Regardless, this year was better and he'll get year 3 because of it (even though it was always unlikely he was going to be fired after just 2 seasons). He'll once again have to significantly rebuild the roster. Likely 6 new players and maybe more. So while the program had some upswing this year, it's difficult to estimate how much that will carry over into next season because the team will be significantly different.

I have no personal animus towards McMahon whatsoever. None. I don't even know the guy. I just want him to win. And right now there are very few signs of that being likely. If you've followed LSU basketball for longer than 5 years you've seen a LOT of mediocre to bad basketball. You know what it looks like. You also know what good basketball looks like. And the last two years with McMahon have looked more like the former than the latter. However, the double-edged sword of the transfer era means that can completely change in literally one offseason. So no one can unequivocally say LSU will be awful next year. You can have your doubts they will based upon McMahon's first two seasons here (and I do), but no one can say for sure.

So he'll get at least year 3 to show he can win. And I hope he does. But I think it is foolish to say he should get year 4 regardless without first seeing how year 3 goes. If the results are no better than this season, or worse, then why waste time with another year? A year where he will once again have to rebuild the roster (because that is the nature of the game now) and he will have failed 3 times already in doing so in terms of putting together a team to reach the NCAA Tournament. At some point you just have to accept it isn't going to work rather than continue to chase success based upon little more than hopes and dreams.

Agree with all of that but he probably won't get fired if he was to say go 9-9 again or 10-8 next year with some mitigating circumstances unless there is a coach available they really want. I have said over and over he needs to nail it in the portal this year. Will see if he can. No doubt in my mind if Cook was available at the beginning we probably win a couple of those OOC games we lost and possibly a couple of SEC games after his suspension/injury even though he became a burden later on. The fact is this team is not that far removed from making the NCAA this year.

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Woodward’s “year zero” comment makes me believe a 4th year is guaranteed

Reminded me of Alleva saying he didn’t care if TJ went winless in conference

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AD's are generally going to say what they can say to publicly support their coach. But if he is looking at another year of mild support and general apathy for a program not even in consideration for the NCAA Tournament, I think he will have no choice to consider making a change. Hell, just look at all of the "excitement" LSU's "postseason" game generated two days ago...a smattering of 2,000 fans (if really even that). Woodward has been a part of huge crowds in that arena. I'm sure you have been a part of much bigger crowds even for NIT games (see Ball State in the early 2000's). The apathy has set in an as an AD you can't just let it continue. Particularly when you are going to be touting the new $300M arena you plan to build.

After next season every excuse should finally be off the table. The investigation is over. The sanctions (which were mostly nothing) will be over. The ominous dark cloud that so many saw hanging over the PMAC (maybe that's why the roof looks terrible?) will be dissipated. There won't be a single player from the Wade era on the team (assuming Wilkinson doesn't return). Even though it is already, there will be NO DOUBT this is 100% McMahon's program. And if by year 3 he's no better than he's been this season, while multiple other HC's annually complete drastic turnarounds, then I have reasonable confidence Woodward will concede it's not going to work. He's a lot of things, but he's not Joe Alleva. I don't think Woodward is going to give an unnecessary 4th year just to "make certain" the first 3 years weren't a fluke.

Ffirst of all we are not an above caliber basketball program. We never have been and probably never will be. Despite having Bob Petit, Pete Maravich, O'Neal, and Chris Jackson, we have never been a consistent winner, especially in the last 25 years with a few exceptions. Wade was the best we could ever have expected. A young workaholic coach who was smart, had charisma out the ying yang, and could recruit.

An Honest List of What Our Expectations Should Be:

At least 10-8 in conference games with an overall winning record.
Win the SEC every five years or so.
Make the NCAA Tournament four out of every five years.

The chances of LSU ever winning a National Championship in basketball is so slim as to be non-existent.

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Hell, just look at all of the "excitement" LSU's "postseason" game generated two days ago...a smattering of 2,000 fans (if really even that).

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That genuinely surprised me - how awful the crowd was. I mean I didn't expect a full house but I was thinking 5 or 6K. Hell man, that was the worst crowd of the entire season!

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Woodward’s “year zero” comment

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Not a fan of that comment or notion if you will...I find enabling, but it seems to be in vogue, Mascona uses it ad nauseum the few brief segments he talks about LSU hoops.

Programs aren't locked in a level predicated by their past.
Having a fertile recruiting area, and other contextual factors are more important to a program's capability. And having coaches who are good at recognizing and maximizing all these factors, as well as implementing systems and developing players and culture.
When you look at the past to analyze the capability of the basketball program, you need to look deeper at some of the possibilities if recruiting had been better, just locally.

DeJon Jarreau
Robert Williams
DJ Augustin
Langston Galloway
Damian Jones
Danny Granger
Avery Johnson
Robert Pack
Eldridge Recasner
Paul Millsap
Karl Malone
Benoit Benjamin
Robert Parish
Joe Dumars
Orlando Woolridge

This is just a list of some notable NBA players from Louisiana through the years since you only mentioned some high-profile players. Obviously we could add more. Then Texas and Mississippi as border states, which are both good states for basketball talent.
Really, good teams are much more than one high-profile player. It's about a mix of skill sets that make up a cohesive, complementary team. And that's going to include role players, and some players who may not make it to the NBA, but still make a significant impact.
Look at Connecticut's season totals the past couple years. They haven't had one player average close to 20 points or 10 rebounds. But they get good contributions from each position.

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That genuinely surprised me - how awful the crowd was. I mean I didn't expect a full house but I was thinking 5 or 6K. Hell man, that was the worst crowd of the entire season!

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I wasn't really surprised. The moment North Texas was announced as the opponent I said it was incredibly disappointing because I knew even less people would care than the few that already did. That proved to be accurate. For some context, the LSU v ULL NIT game only had 6,800. That was at a time where there was MUCH more excitement surrounding the program and had some pregame hype because of Wade and Marlin's bickering Frankly, I'm not sure I believe there were 2,200 fans there. I think that number includes cheerleaders, media, the blue shirt "security" detail, and the janitors.

If LSU reaches the NIT next season the interest will be about the same. The interest for big LSU basketball fans is waning. The interest for casual fans is zero. A NIT berth and admonitions of "just wait until next year" will fall on deaf ears because there would be little signs next year would be coming.

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Bro we really live in a world where North Texas has a better coach and team than us. In no world should LSU be losing to UNT in round 1 of the NIT.

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Man, unfortunately I have to agree here. I could get into deep detail as to why I agree, but I'd be wasting space and time.

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I’m quite worried about next year. Barring any big OOC names visiting the PMAC I expect it to be a ghost town most of the year.

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Yeah, interest will be near nill to start the season and typically our OOC home schedules in hoops do little to help in that regard. Plus, with who we lose and who is coming back (maybe) and in, there's not much certainty that any of those names can be more than just decent or nice players. Better hit lightening in a bottle in the portal.

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I’m still going to every game as per usual, but damn man.

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Me too and agreed.