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Message
re: Lsu basketball Center play
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:49 pm to JimTiger72
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:49 pm to JimTiger72
You’re right it’s not all on Baker. When you’re as bad as we are on D you’re going to have trouble rebounding because you’re often in poor position.
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Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:53 pm to JimTiger72
quote:
In response to another (or Jordan Wright) saying they “rank 302nd in rebounding.” There are 350 basketball teams in D1. Maybe they were that low at some point this season, but they’re not that bad.
Jordan Wright said it in a post game interview, it’s clear it’s been an issue with this team. Whether we rank 302nd, 250th, 220th, it really doesn’t matter. I can point to NUMEROUS examples of box scores, interviews, and press conferences where rebounding was (or the lack thereof) was addressed.
It’s no secret that’s been a huge weakness of this team. It’s insane to me to say otherwise. And yes as madking said fountain and Ward should have been starting from day 1. And it’s not all bakers fault, it is a team effort.
On the positive side, it seems like bakers found another gear and been playing way more physical. I do still think we need to go after a center in the portal that is a defender, screen setter, and rebounder. Ball screen offense would go crazy with a legitimate roll threat
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 2/27/24 at 4:49 pm to mmcgrath
Anyone who looked at the roster knew rebounding was going to be a concern. Despite being a 7 footer, Baker has never been a great rebounder or shot blocker at any point in his college career. Collins had the potential to be both, but hasn't played. Dean can rebound, but he plays spot minutes. Reed is inconsistent. Chest reminded me of Emmitt Williams (a great rebounder), but he has been redshirted.
Rebounding is about athleticism and positioning. But it's probably more about effort, desire, and timing. Baker has the desire. But his timing and explosiveness is poor. He takes forever to load up to jump...not very high. Compare that to Hannibal who is often already in the air before other guys have left the floor. That's why he's a great rebounder. He has the desire, explosiveness, and timing to be one.
Another thing that probably goes a bit unnoticed is that LSU is ranked near the bottom of the country in opponent 3 point attempts per game. Whether that is by design or not, long shots often lead to long misses...which are often more difficult to rebound.
LSU is a bad defensive rebounding team, but they are a top 1/3rd offensive rebounding team. That puts them at about the middle of the pack overall. Even last week they weren't bludgeoned on the boards. LSU grabbed 48% of rebound opportunities compared to MSU getting 52%. MSU got 16 offensive rebounds compared to 12 for LSU. Not a huge discrepancy. The difference was MSU made the 2nd chances count while LSU didn't, scoring 27 second chance points to LSU's 10.
Outside of the home Texas A&M, rebounding hasn't been LSU's killer. I think we just focus on it more because Baker, a guy many expected to be a good rebounder, isn't.
Rebounding is about athleticism and positioning. But it's probably more about effort, desire, and timing. Baker has the desire. But his timing and explosiveness is poor. He takes forever to load up to jump...not very high. Compare that to Hannibal who is often already in the air before other guys have left the floor. That's why he's a great rebounder. He has the desire, explosiveness, and timing to be one.
Another thing that probably goes a bit unnoticed is that LSU is ranked near the bottom of the country in opponent 3 point attempts per game. Whether that is by design or not, long shots often lead to long misses...which are often more difficult to rebound.
LSU is a bad defensive rebounding team, but they are a top 1/3rd offensive rebounding team. That puts them at about the middle of the pack overall. Even last week they weren't bludgeoned on the boards. LSU grabbed 48% of rebound opportunities compared to MSU getting 52%. MSU got 16 offensive rebounds compared to 12 for LSU. Not a huge discrepancy. The difference was MSU made the 2nd chances count while LSU didn't, scoring 27 second chance points to LSU's 10.
Outside of the home Texas A&M, rebounding hasn't been LSU's killer. I think we just focus on it more because Baker, a guy many expected to be a good rebounder, isn't.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 6:10 pm to mcmaniacinsaneasylum
quote:
I think Chest is our best rebounder but he’s redshirted.
What do you base this on? He has not played.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:44 pm to lsutigers23
I’d take Del Rosario at this point
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:46 pm to tigersbb
quote:
What do you base this on? He has not played
Scrimmage and his high school tape
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:48 pm to lsutigers23
Really!! You want to talk about that instead of turnovers? Baker and Wright are just turnovers waiting to happen yet nobody says anything about it. We must have set a season record tonight.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:13 pm to benoit_BayouBengals
Except slower
Posted on 2/27/24 at 11:20 pm to bmistr1023
Baker needs to suck it up and play like he is 7 foot,not 5'4" in 4th grade cafeteria league! Get out there kick some arse and play like you fricking care and nobody's going to push you around!
Posted on 2/27/24 at 11:34 pm to tigersbb
quote:
What do you base this on? He has not played
regarding chest, I cant say rebounding in particular for sure, but his athleticism and leaping is off the charts, I saw him doing those vertical leap things where you slap the highest thing on the pole. he was miles above the rim. not as high as Collins, who is a skywalker at high NBA level, but still pretty amazing.
I have watched chest in high school as well, and he is all motor and athleticism. my guess is he redshirted to work on shooting and moving with the ball.
the emmit williams comp is good.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 2/28/24 at 7:03 am to lsutigers23
quote:
What’s the point of having 7 footers if they can’t block shots or rebound?
I'm coming around on CMM but still some things bother me a bit and the rotations with the centers is one of them.
He will not rotate Baker/Dean for anyone but the other. My issues with that is - neither of them bring anything defensively better than Reid or Fountain, in fact I would argue they compromise us there despite their height in comparison. And none of the four of them really rebound much better than the other - so what's the harm of playing Reed and Fountain together sometime.
Also, he continues to play Baker on defense in critical end of game situations....like last night when he had multiple opportunities to sub in for him. And Baker is in my view our worst defensive player overall.
What does Georgia do - of course on the second to last possession where they took the lead, they ran Baker off a high screen, like every team does all the time, and got a straight line drive to the goal off the action for a layup to take the lead.
I have some other questions about his rotations that really puzzle me but this is the biggest one.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 7:36 am to mcspufftiger7
quote:
Baker has slow feet and terrible hands. Also he is weak for a 7 footer. He can give you some inside baskets and a few 3's but that is about it.
I don’t want to hate on Baker too much because he has been important in some Ws this year, but I’m not sure how anyone could’ve watched even one game this year and argue with this.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 9:58 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Also, he continues to play Baker on defense in critical end of game situations....like last night when he had multiple opportunities to sub in for him. And Baker is in my view our worst defensive player overall.
What does Georgia do - of course on the second to last possession where they took the lead, they ran Baker off a high screen, like every team does all the time, and got a straight line drive to the goal off the action for a layup to take the lead.
I don't disagree with you, and I've (nearly) pulled out my hair at the end of games when Baker was in when LSU really needed more defense/rebounding to close out a game, but having Baker in last night probably won the game for LSU.
LSU called their last TO with over 4:00 to play. Also, Dean was a bit hobbled after leaving the game for a bit with a hip/leg injury. It was a one-score game for pretty much the entirety of the final 6:00. In a spot where LSU's offense was dismal. LSU needed something on offense and Baker can at least give you that. Most importantly, he's a much better FT shooter than Dean.
With 2:00 to go Ward made a layup to give LSU the 64-65 lead. Ideally maybe you start making some offense/defense subs there. But LSU was out of TOs. So if he took Baker out there was no guarantee he could get him back in the game at a spot where he needed him.
Case in point, UGA called their 2nd to last TO with 38 seconds down 65-64. Maybe you want to put Dean in for defense/rebounding on that possession. But if UGA scored (and they did) you now have to play from behind without one of your better offensive players on the floor because you don't have a TO to sub Baker back in. If UGA misses, then you still have a FT liability in Dean on the floor. What ultimately played out was UGA taking the lead and Baker getting fouled on the other end. He hits the two FTs that proved to be the game winner. Dean is one of the LAST guys you want taking those. If LSU had a TO maybe they sub Dean in for Baker after the FT. But they didn't. And UGA didn't use a TO on their final possession to allow LSU to sub.
I guess that is a very long-winded way of saying LSU being out of TOs for the final 4:00 made playing the offense/defense game more difficult. Thus, McMahon just went with who he felt was his best player down the stretch.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 12:39 pm to Alt26
quote:I see what you are saying but there were stoppages in play where subbing could have been done, particularly the last sequence he could have subbed him out for defense, but he was not even considering it which really puzzles me.
I guess that is a very long-winded way of saying LSU being out of TOs for the final 4:00 made playing the offense/defense game more difficult. Thus, McMahon just went with who he felt was his best player down the stretch.
quote:
hat ultimately played out was UGA taking the lead and Baker getting fouled on the other end. He hits the two FTs that proved to be the game winner. Dean is one of the LAST guys you want taking those. If LSU had a TO maybe they sub Dean in for Baker after the FT. But they didn't. And UGA didn't use a TO on their final possession to allow LSU to sub.
We were very fortunate a foul was called right there, because that was a clean block, watched it again when I got home. and the way he was turning the ball over in the second half I didn't trust him on offense either. And hell he missed two straight free throws just a few minutes earlier in the game.
I'm not saying put Dean in - what I've been arguing for a month now is why is it that CMM thinks he can only sub Baker and Dean for each other and not play Dean and Fountain together? Brady even asked CMM that after the Kentucky post game on the radio.
Posted on 2/28/24 at 1:28 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
We were very fortunate a foul was called right there, because that was a clean block, watched it again when I got home.
The foul wasn’t called on the UGA player that blocked the shot. It was called on the other guy making contact with Baker before the block happened
This post was edited on 2/28/24 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 2/29/24 at 6:31 am to Lgrnwd
quote:hmmmmm...guess I'll have to watch it again. Did not see any contact I thought was worthy of a foul.
The foul wasn’t called on the UGA player that blocked the shot. It was called on the other guy making contact with Baker before the block happened
Posted on 2/29/24 at 6:34 am to benoit_BayouBengals
quote:
Will Baker plays like a 6'6 power forward.
There are a lot of 6’6” power forwards who can grab more rebounds than him.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 6:53 am to Coater
I’d take Del Rosario at this point
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You win the internet today. Lol!
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You win the internet today. Lol!
Posted on 2/29/24 at 6:54 am to Beats2Geaux
quote:
There are a lot of 6’6” power forwards who can grab more rebounds than him.
I did find it curious after the Kentucky game when John Brady asked him if he ever considered playing Fountain and Reed together.
The insinuation obviously was, "is it always necessary to sub only Baker and Dean at the 5".
CMM's answer was Kentucky had their two big guys in there so that was not an option, which I thought a bit puzzling as I don't see the benefit outside an inch or 2 in height that playing either of them over Reed/Fountain, in fact I think the plusses might outweigh benefits if we were to try it....we just never do.
This post was edited on 2/29/24 at 6:59 am
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