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re: Lessons that can be learned from this Bama exodus?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:09 am to LSBoosie
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:09 am to LSBoosie
quote:
There’s no lesson to be learned. Anytime you are overhauling a coaching staff, you are going to have guys leave. The fact that the coach leaving is the greatest coach of all time just amplifies it. The majority of those kids went to Alabama because of Nick Saban. I still think Alabama will be able to recruit well because they have built up that brand, but they were bound to have a bunch of guys leave no matter what.
I agree. Whenever Saban left, a ton of players were going to leave too, no matter what plan they had in place. This won't be popular, but I actually think Bama is handling this the best way possible. Understand you're playing the long game, hire the best HC and staff possible, and accept that you'll probably take a little roster regression for a year or 2. But if you hit on the right hire, he'll have them back toward the top of the SEC in a year or 2.
The worst thing they could have done is panic and hire a lesser coach--or staff--simply to try to prevent the exodus from happening. Like they could have have pressured DeBoer to keep Rees (the admin, I know the fans didn't care to keep him), for example, in hopes of keeping the incoming 5-star QB and WR. Instead they let him bring in Grubbs, who may be the best OC in the SEC. And they could have tried to convince him to hire a DC that had Bama ties and had worked under Saban previously. They let him hire the guy he worked with at Indiana (name and where he was currently HC is slipping my mind). By all accounts, he's a home run as a DC.
So I actually think the biggest lessons to be learned are from what they are actually doing. Identify who you think is the best coach available, hire them, and give them the autonomy and money to assemble the best staff HE thinks possible, realize you're playing the long game and don't freak out and try to plug these daily holes popping up with temporary bandaids and bubble gum. Especially considering a lot of these guys who are leaving now would likely have left eventually anyway. And do like Saban has been preaching to you since 2007, and Trust the Process.
0
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:14 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Kids and parents are pissed off that saban tried to trick them. Now it's F you time. It's burning to the ground.
Really hate to see it...
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:40 am to LSBoosie
quote:
You really think Saban wasn’t smart enough to think about that?
Moving is a pain in the arse. I believe he thought once they settled into a routine with classes, he’d minimize the exodus as Bama hired replacement very quick.
As much as it pains Bama fans, the brand is absolutely worthless to a significant number of today’s football players. Their loyalty was to their position coach or Saban, and can easily be bought by the next guy.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:43 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
The best way to counteract that is to focus more on instate recruits. It doesn't eliminate the problem, but it mitigates it.
Bama has been getting top players to come to them at a discount in NIL due to playing for saban. That’s not happening anymore.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:45 am to Covingtontiger77
That’s like observing a car wreck and saying, “Henceforth one must avoid collisions with other cars.” All you did was state the problem and say we need a solution.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:48 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:He literally made his decision 5 minutes before he was to speak to the team on what kind of speech it would be (to stay or go).
but they got greedy and thought they could trap this recruiting class
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:49 am to DEG
The lesson is not to clean house when hiring a new coach. Keep the best recruiters and position coaches on staff and make gradual changes.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:49 am to Covingtontiger77
There’s nothing to learn because there are no other Saban’s in CFB
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:00 pm to Covingtontiger77
Not really as applicable as you think it is,
The gumps are falling especially hard because Saban was the brand and cult figure. Now that he’s gone those arrogant fricking gumps are finding out there’s really no such thing as “Alabama tradition,” at least to the extent they thought.
Those (paid off) players came to play for Saban, not Alabama. Sure, if CBK left here would be some player loss but not to that extent. We’d get another good coach who would not be following a cult figure like Saban.
The gumps are falling especially hard because Saban was the brand and cult figure. Now that he’s gone those arrogant fricking gumps are finding out there’s really no such thing as “Alabama tradition,” at least to the extent they thought.
Those (paid off) players came to play for Saban, not Alabama. Sure, if CBK left here would be some player loss but not to that extent. We’d get another good coach who would not be following a cult figure like Saban.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:02 pm to Covingtontiger77
It shows that timing is critical for coaching changes.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:04 pm to skullhawk
quote:Nah, he knew exactly what he eas doing. He wanted Bama fans to feel what he brought. Everyone hopes to feel “missed” when they leave a place of employment but life goes pon.
Saban thought he was clever by waiting until classes started at Bama before leaving, thinking it would lock guys in for at least a year.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:05 pm to Covingtontiger77
I do think this is a bit of a one-off. Saban is the greatest coach of his time, if not ever. Whoever replaced him was not going to be as good as Saban was, as of now.
I have no doubt many players there were going purely to play for Saban, because they thought that was the best way to maximize their draft value.
If Saban did not retire but instead went to another school, a ton of kids would have followed him to the new school.
Could some of this have been avoided by promoting a coordiator, promoting a position coach to coordinator, and adding a new position coach, but keeping rest of staff intact?
Maybe. But Bama really didn't have anyone on staff right now that would be a good candidate to be promoted to HC.
If Kirby or Kiffin were still on staff, maybe that works and maybe that helps to slow the bleeding but it would not stop it.
I have no doubt many players there were going purely to play for Saban, because they thought that was the best way to maximize their draft value.
If Saban did not retire but instead went to another school, a ton of kids would have followed him to the new school.
Could some of this have been avoided by promoting a coordiator, promoting a position coach to coordinator, and adding a new position coach, but keeping rest of staff intact?
Maybe. But Bama really didn't have anyone on staff right now that would be a good candidate to be promoted to HC.
If Kirby or Kiffin were still on staff, maybe that works and maybe that helps to slow the bleeding but it would not stop it.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:12 pm to CatfishJohn
Loyalty to a school is a nearly dead concept. It might, just might, still be around for some 3 and 2 stars, but for the 4 and 5 stars, it's money only.
All that remains are the old fart alumni and a few idealistic youngsters. Even those are falling away fast.
All that remains are the old fart alumni and a few idealistic youngsters. Even those are falling away fast.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:15 pm to LSBoosie
quote:I don't think he cared. In fact, I wouldn't put it past Saban to purposely sabotage the program on the way out. The last thing he would want for his legacy is for another coach to come in behind him and be successful.
You really think Saban wasn’t smart enough to think about that?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:38 pm to skullhawk
Saban knows the rules better than anyone so he knew that there would be a new 30 day portal window that would open. Maybe his angle was that other schools would fil their rosters and wouldn't have room. Who knows.
Regime change always comes with heavy attrition and is only exacerbated by the free agency mentality that NIL has created. Saban has always sold kids on making business decisions, welp, they are.
Regime change always comes with heavy attrition and is only exacerbated by the free agency mentality that NIL has created. Saban has always sold kids on making business decisions, welp, they are.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:59 pm to Death Before Disco
quote:
I don't think he cared. In fact, I wouldn't put it past Saban to purposely sabotage the program on the way out. The last thing he would want for his legacy is for another coach to come in behind him and be successful.
Always love this junior high thinking. I bet you also think Saban signed several players from Louisiana every year just so LSU didn't get them, right?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 1:12 pm to ExpoTiger
quote:
I suggested to a friend tgat this approach may become the new norm for these schools. They are definitely monitoring the bama implosion and are trying to take steps to mitigate such a disaster but I also think Bama made an all time goofy coaching hire and they did it because of arrogance. What a miscalculation to think these kids were going to stay around for a guy they don’t know from the west coast.
This eliminates the potential of getting a coach like Brian Kelly though. No way does a coach of that caliber come to be an assistant or co-head coach (if that's even a thing)
You might just have to take your medicine if your coach decides to retire while on top
Posted on 1/19/24 at 1:13 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
There’s no lesson to be learned. Anytime you are overhauling a coaching staff, you are going to have guys leave. The fact that the coach leaving is the greatest coach of all time just amplifies it. The majority of those kids went to Alabama because of Nick Saban. I still think Alabama will be able to recruit well because they have built up that brand, but they were bound to have a bunch of guys leave no matter what.
This. However the timing of Saban's retirement greatly exacerbated the issue because it allowed Alabama's roster to be gutted without much in the way of viable means to replace it. The portal is closed for all (non-grad student) players to enter except for those who just lost their coach. That severely limits the players available to Alabama. The HS signees are also bailing. But the early signing day has passed and all of the great prospects have already enrolled. And what triple amplified the fall out is Alabama has probably the most desirable roster besides Georgia. Usually when a coach is fired it is in part because he does not have great players. And those players won't be in demand on the transfer market. Here, Alabama has several great players that every coach in America wants. So the vultures are knocking each other over to pick the bones clean.
I guess if there is any lessons to be learned it's:
(1) If you are going to fire your HC, do it sooner rather than later. You'll have attrition. But at least it gives the new coach a chance to mitigate the damage
(2) If you HC is considering retirement then ask him to please make the decision sooner rather than later. Obviously he had to because his team was in the CFP, but Saban when through the whole early signing period and transfer window before dropping an unexpected bomb on Alabama and college football at a time Alabama was helpless to do much to mitigate the fallout.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:08 pm to tigersbb
quote:No, I don't think that.
Always love this junior high thinking. I bet you also think Saban signed several players from Louisiana every year just so LSU didn't get them, right?
But I do think he is out first and foremost for himself. I think he has very little loyalty to Bama or anything but himself.
I think he chose the option that worked best for him without much regard for Bama or its future. And I think he's the type of person that would hate to see another coach come in behind him and win with his players.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:39 pm to tigersbb
quote:It is a juvenile mindset isn't it? Especially when you consider that Saban is still going to have an office inside the stadium.
Always love this junior high thinking.
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