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Message
re: Is the problem with defense personnel or coaching/scheme?
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:05 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:05 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
And I hate to talk bad about the players, because I can see that they really are trying. The effort is there, and I see their frustration. They’re being let down.
1
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:09 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
But yet Perkins was supposed to be the BEST defensive player in the country and supposedly no one could stop him. The offense would at least have to put a couple of players to block him.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:11 am to DeafJam73
quote:
And I hate to talk bad about the players, because I can see that they really are trying. The effort is there, and I see their frustration
I agree. I don’t think they don’t okay hard.
They are just not coached well and are too young or not talented enough to be SEC starters
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:30 am to Tom Bronco
quote:
But yet Perkins was supposed to be the BEST defensive player in the country and supposedly no one could stop him. The offense would at least have to put a couple of players to block him.
Even if you commit him to rushing the QB, he can’t do it alone. Like how a RB needs the OL to open up running lanes, a blitzing LB needs the DL to create pass rush lanes. The DL just isn’t doing that for him.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:40 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
House’s scheme is complicated, which is typical for zone-heavy defenses. This makes them more difficult to implement in college. You need continuity in your program and experienced players who have spent more than just an offseason learning it. It’s also a challenge because of the NCAA’s limitations on practice time, both in and off-season. And the difficulty makes it harder to get talented young players on the field.
Part of the challenge with zone is that you can’t just play vanilla all the time. Any QB with a pulse can pick a straight zone to pieces, especially if you aren’t getting pressure on them. You have to be able to disguise looks and bring blitzes from different areas to confuse them. We actually did a lot of that last year after week one, but we also had some key vets like BJ, Roy, and Baskerville up front and transfers in Brooks and Foucha who played a ton of zone at Arkansas.
Our personnel problems this season have exposed how inflexible House is and how he can’t get his concepts across to players quickly. And that is his downfall, because his scheme doesn’t work without all of the bells and whistles. We see what it looks like simplified, because it’s what we have been running since the bye week. Even when the players execute it doesn’t work very well. But even with it stripped to the bare bones, the players still look frustrated and confused half the time. Don’t even get me started on Speights and Penn having NO CLUE where to go and what to do most of the time.
There is a reason zone-heavy or other complex schemes aren’t as common in college football, but there are coaches who do a lot better than this running them. Saban has always run a complex defense (even if it isn’t heavy on zone), but has always been flexible and able to adjust to the players. Aranda and Odom are examples of guys who run a lot of zone, but can adjust to their talent and are consistently good to great. Brad White at UK is obviously a lot better than House at running pretty much the same scheme with a similar talent level to what we have this season.
Personally, I hope we go back to a man-base defense that is attacking and a lot simpler and more straightforward with the next hire. I get that zone mastered and played correctly offers advantages against modern offenses. I’m just not sure how easy it is to sustain a great zone defense with the restrictions of the college game.
Part of the challenge with zone is that you can’t just play vanilla all the time. Any QB with a pulse can pick a straight zone to pieces, especially if you aren’t getting pressure on them. You have to be able to disguise looks and bring blitzes from different areas to confuse them. We actually did a lot of that last year after week one, but we also had some key vets like BJ, Roy, and Baskerville up front and transfers in Brooks and Foucha who played a ton of zone at Arkansas.
Our personnel problems this season have exposed how inflexible House is and how he can’t get his concepts across to players quickly. And that is his downfall, because his scheme doesn’t work without all of the bells and whistles. We see what it looks like simplified, because it’s what we have been running since the bye week. Even when the players execute it doesn’t work very well. But even with it stripped to the bare bones, the players still look frustrated and confused half the time. Don’t even get me started on Speights and Penn having NO CLUE where to go and what to do most of the time.
There is a reason zone-heavy or other complex schemes aren’t as common in college football, but there are coaches who do a lot better than this running them. Saban has always run a complex defense (even if it isn’t heavy on zone), but has always been flexible and able to adjust to the players. Aranda and Odom are examples of guys who run a lot of zone, but can adjust to their talent and are consistently good to great. Brad White at UK is obviously a lot better than House at running pretty much the same scheme with a similar talent level to what we have this season.
Personally, I hope we go back to a man-base defense that is attacking and a lot simpler and more straightforward with the next hire. I get that zone mastered and played correctly offers advantages against modern offenses. I’m just not sure how easy it is to sustain a great zone defense with the restrictions of the college game.
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 10:42 am
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:43 am to SA4LSU
Small colleges with far less talent have better defenses than LSU.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:46 am to SA4LSU
I thought House did a good job last year. Earlier this season I was curious as to just what had happened. Fast forward to Nov. and I am no longer interested in the whys or hows. Just fire his arse.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:48 am to SA4LSU
It's personnel. Look back at this group later re: NFL and compare it to past defenses.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:50 am to SA4LSU
Combination…….which still falls on coaching. They are recruiting these players
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:52 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
quote:
House has done nothing to mitigate the subpar talent
How would one go about that? You only have the personnel you have. It’s not like you can snap your fingers and voila you have above par talent.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:52 am to TheHarahanian
It all starts up front! The defensive linemen are pretty poor at rushing the opposing QB; and add to that 2 linebackers that play poorly, followed by a poor covering and poor tackling secondary and there are issues. Perkins stands alone on an island and gets no help from the other personnel. So, a good DC and good defensive coaching staff should be able to develop schemes to fit the lack of personnel. But this defensive staff, all season long, has attempted to fit the personnel into schemes that simply don't work. The schemes should adapt to personnel, but in the case of LSU, it seems to be the opposite! Just my opinion.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:52 am to SA4LSU
Both. There's athletic talent that lack real football talent. The biggest problem is coaching. They are always out of position and the tackling is atrocious. Watching games yesterday, particularly UGA/Tennessee and Texas/Iowa St, the difference is tackling is very noticeable. If we were even a half solid defense we'd be talking playoffs. Instead we are running neck and neck with USC for the absolute worst. They fired their guy. We should follow suit. It's an embarrassment to the brand to be this bad at defense. Pelini(2nd trip) wasn't this bad. For 100 mil Kelly has blame at his doorstep for allowing it on his watch.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 10:59 am to ultratiger89
quote:
How would one go about that? You only have the personnel you have. It’s not like you can snap your fingers and voila you have above par talent
By adjusting your scheme to what the personal does best.
By adjusting to what the opposing offense is doing rather than stick with a plan that is clearly not working (see Bama game)
Posted on 11/19/23 at 11:03 am to ultratiger89
quote:
How would one go about that? You only have the personnel you have. It’s not like you can snap your fingers and voila you have above par talent.
See my post above. Brad White is consistently fielding a much better defense than ours with similar or lesser talent than we have this season. 26th in 21, 11th last year and 54th this season in team defense. Kelly tried to hire him first and should have moved on from this scheme when he couldn’t get him.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 11:04 am to SA4LSU
Combo of both but more scheme. Always somebody running free, never rushes more than 4 etc…
Posted on 11/19/23 at 11:10 am to SA4LSU
Scheme and lack of coaching. Maason Smith was better before this year. Perkins was better before this year. Speights was all-conference and his old defense looked good defensively last night. Obviously, they have some good coaching on defense. Yes, we would love to have 5 star recruits at every position, who wouldn't. But you have to adjust your scheme to fit your personnel.
Let's say it was simply talent. Even if that was the case, we would've still seen improvement from players. However, we've not seen that. Players have regressed all across the defense.
IMO House is horrible. Not only is his scheme bad but I don't think this staff has been good with evaluating and identifying what personnel should be playing.
Let's say it was simply talent. Even if that was the case, we would've still seen improvement from players. However, we've not seen that. Players have regressed all across the defense.
IMO House is horrible. Not only is his scheme bad but I don't think this staff has been good with evaluating and identifying what personnel should be playing.
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