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Started By
Message
re: Brian Kelly deserves a ton of credit
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:18 am to JiminyCricket
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:18 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Are we going to assume Bo Davis and Kevin Peoples arent going to work out?
Fair, I'd assume Davis and Baker will work out. I'd probably add Peoples to the TBD list. I'm more so leaving out all of the new hires, as they haven't coached a game yet. I mean we all thought House was a good hire after his first year here.
2
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:33 am to LSBoosie
quote:
I'd probably add Peoples to the TBD list.
Brother, Kevin Peoples is about as proven a position coach relative to development and recruiting as you'll find in college football.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:37 am to LSBoosie
quote:
I mean we all thought House was a good hire after his first year here.
Which is why I would put any one who hasn't coached a game at LSU (current stint) in the TBD category. Baker and Raymond could flop just as easily as House did. I'd put Davis there too but have more faith in that being a good hire than the other two.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:42 am to JiminyCricket
So was CR before he went to Florida, so was Tommy Moffitt. A lot of guys are proven until they aren't. But sure, you can add him to the proven list if you want.
Point being that I'm not calling anyone a great hire until they at least coach a single game at LSU.
Point being that I'm not calling anyone a great hire until they at least coach a single game at LSU.
This post was edited on 8/19/24 at 9:44 am
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:52 am to ApisMellifera
quote:
Defensively, there has been a lot. But I'm not sure anyone could have seen how terrible Matt House would have been in his return to CFB. Everyone was excited when that hire was announced.
What’s weird is that the defense was not bad in his first year. It wasn’t dominant by any means but they were at least average and had stretches of being very good. Year 2 looked like he didn’t even try.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 9:57 am to LSBoosie
quote:
So was CR before he went to Florida, so was Tommy Moffitt. A lot of guys are proven until they aren't. But sure, you can add him to the proven list if you want.
Point being that I'm not calling anyone a great hire until they at least coach a single game at LSU.
One of your original assertions was that Kelly is 50/50 on making good hires and the data just doesn't bore that out. You've moved the goalposts a few times so I won't continue debating you on it but Kelly's career has shown more often than not, his hires work out very very well.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:00 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
One of your original assertions was that Kelly is 50/50 on making good hires and the data just doesn't bore that out.
I mean you are counting guys that haven't coach a game at LSU in your numbers. Think about that. You are claiming that guys that literally haven't coached yet are already guaranteed good hires.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:12 am to LSBoosie
quote:
I mean you are counting guys that haven't coach a game at LSU in your numbers.
And you're discounting a 30 year history of hiring coordinators who later became head coaches and claiming he's a 50/50 coach at hiring talent.
quote:
Think about that. You are claiming that guys that literally haven't coached yet are already guaranteed good hires.
C'mon now. Pretending that Bo Davis isn't a good hire to coach our D line just because he hasn't coached under Kelly at LSU yet is absolutely obtuse.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:17 am to Geauxldninja
quote:
it sure helped having the 2 best tackles in the country in state
Will would not have gone to LSU under the Orgeron regime
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:19 am to Jack Crevalle
He’s the utmost program builder. His methods have had to change slightly but his concept has always been to build character and do things the right way. He’s a HOF coach no doubt….
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:33 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
claiming he's a 50/50 coach at hiring talent.
I'm talking about LSU.
quote:
Pretending that Bo Davis isn't a good hire to coach our D line
Never once have I said this.
You once said this about a staff that included Matt House, Kerry Cooks, and Robert Steeples:
quote:
As impressive as Kelly himself has been so far, I think his best work has been the staff he’s assembled around him. Clearly, he knows what he wants in an assistant and these guys have been doing great work thus far.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:35 am to ApisMellifera
quote:
Defensively, there has been a lot. But I'm not sure anyone could have seen how terrible Matt House would have been in his return to CFB. Everyone was excited when that hire was announced. It appears that he is well on his way to fixing that though.
Cain was a solid hire, but really the only one of the initial defensive group. While Lindsey’s health issues don’t fall on Kelly, the hire to replace Cain could have been better.
House looked fine on paper up front, especially with some SEC success under his belt. Its too bad there weren’t more red flags form his time at UK, because he’s just not flexible enough for college football. You have to be able to succeed with something other than a perfect, experienced roster and he couldn’t.
Cooks and Steeples were big misses and Kelly should have done better.
Hiring one of the best all-around offensive staffs in the P5 out of the gate gives Kelly some leeway here. Also, there is the fact that the 3 previous DCs from ND are all still P5 head coaches and he just made what look to be great replacement hires. House and company look like a one-off mistake. A bad one and one that Kelly deserves criticism for, but one that wasn’t repeated. I think the difference between how Kelly handled his defensive staff clean sweep after a bad year and how O did the same is about a stark a contrast as you can find.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:39 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Let's run down the list. Hits; Wilson-obvious hit Brad Davis-obvious hit Sloan-obvious hit Hankton-obvious hit Bo Davis-obvious hit Baker-clear hit with skins on the wall Raymond-was unsure at first but has clearly become a hit
You left Cain off the list. I’m not sure I would call him a hit, but he was the best of the first round of defensive hires and definitely wasn’t a miss. Maybe neutral, but not a bad hire the way Cooks and Steeples were.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:43 am to LSBoosie
quote:
Hits: Wilson (previously on staff), Sloan, Hankton, Denbrock, Cain Misses: Polian, House, Steeples, Cooks
I wouldn’t call Cain a full hit or Polian a full miss. Cain was solid, but not spectacular.
We all know Polian was a terrible special teams coach, but he also got the credit for the evaluations and planning of our first portal class. We would have been a below .500 team without that group that plugged the all the holes as well as they did. Also, note the massive drop off in portal contributions from last year’s class that he wasn’t there to evaluate. That’s enough to balance out the special teams, as horrible as it was. It sucks that we couldn’t keep him here in an off the field role.
This post was edited on 8/19/24 at 10:47 am
Posted on 8/19/24 at 10:48 am to redfish99
quote:
He’s the utmost program builder. His methods have had to change slightly but his concept has always been to build character and do things the right way. He’s a HOF coach no doubt….
Kelly's willingness and ability to adapt with the new NIL/transfer portal landscape of college football has been key. Some other coaches who have been in the game for a long time like Kelly but stubbornly haven't adapted are being left in the dust- e.g. Dabo is anti transfer portal and the Clemson program is in decline.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 11:02 am to misey94
Cain’s body of work got him into the door. We would have been outstanding if he was here. Let’s stop the notion that he was just okay, and needed to prove it or something. He, like the others had only been here for a Yr. We didn’t get his people in the door to say what was gonna happen.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 1:25 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
I'm talking about LSU.
The best predictor of the future is the past and you've decided to cherry pick a small portion of Kelly's entire resume to make your point.
quote:
Never once have I said this.
I noticed you cut off half of the quote to again move the goalposts and try to make your point.
quote:You're cited quote.
Pretending that Bo Davis isn't a good hire to coach our D line
quote:
Pretending that Bo Davis isn't a good hire to coach our D line just because he hasn't coached under Kelly at LSU yet is absolutely obtuse.
My quote in it's entirety. You've said a hire doesn't count as good until they coach at LSU. You're saying you need to see Bo Davis coach a game at LSU before you're willing to say he's good. That's obtuse and you know it.
quote:
You once said this about a staff that included Matt House, Kerry Cooks, and Robert Steeples:
quote:
As impressive as Kelly himself has been so far, I think his best work has been the staff he’s assembled around him. Clearly, he knows what he wants in an assistant and these guys have been doing great work thus far.
Did you really try to play the receipt game with me from over two years ago?
Also, I stand behind all of that. At the time, under pretty bad circumstances, we fielded a good defense. That's what "thus far" means.
Show me your post where you wanted the whole defensive staff fired after 2022. Oh that's right, you didn't. No one did because at the time they actually were pretty good.
But keep moving goalposts.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 2:18 pm to PUB
quote:
PUB
Loss in game one means playoffs are a pipe dream and probably looking at 3-4 more losses.
This board is so insecure.
Posted on 8/19/24 at 3:01 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
The best predictor of the future is the past and you've decided to cherry pick a small portion of Kelly's entire resume to make your point.
Dude I'm not saying Brian Kelly is a bad coach or that he can't hire good coaches. I'm speak to what he has done at LSU because that's what I care about. If the best predictor of the future is the past, would you say LSU is likely to be .500 against ranked opponents while Kelly is the head coach? Or would you like to cherry pick a portion of Kelly's entire resume to make your point?
quote:
Did you really try to play the receipt game with me from over two years ago?
Yeah, I found some other takes that were hilariously bad as well, but I won't post those because they are irrelevant to this conversation.
quote:
Also, I stand behind all of that. At the time, under pretty bad circumstances, we fielded a good defense. That's what "thus far" means.
You stand by the fact that Kerry Cooks, a high school coach, was a good hire for LSU?
Oh and btw, you made that post before LSU ever played a game with Kelly as head coach, so you had no idea how good the defense was at that time. You were basing your "thus far" off of videos from spring and fall practices. quote:
Show me your post where you wanted the whole defensive staff fired after 2022. Oh that's right, you didn't. No one did because at the time they actually were pretty good.
Well yeah I didn't want them fired because the defense was pretty good. But then they lost a bunch of guys from the previous regime and some transfers they brought in and the defense fell off a cliff and the shite coaching was exposed.
This post was edited on 8/19/24 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 8/19/24 at 4:06 pm to MicahTiger
quote:
Cain’s body of work got him into the door. We would have been outstanding if he was here. Let’s stop the notion that he was just okay, and needed to prove it or something. He, like the others had only been here for a Yr. We didn’t get his people in the door to say what was gonna happen.
Fair point. I thought he did pretty well with on-field coaching and getting the most out if the group in 22. My biggest disappointment with him was that he didn’t kill it in recruiting. He didn’t have long so maybe that would have improved, but that didn’t seem like a huge strength the way it is with Davis.
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